Officious

[Allen165]

"'Shall' is one of those officious and obsolete words that has encumbered legal style writing for many years." (Federal Plain Language Guidelines: Use “must” to indicate requirements)

I don't know what the writer means by "officious." None of the definitions provided on thefreedictionary.com (officious - definition of officious by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.) fit; "shall" is certainly not an informal word.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[birdeen's call]

I don't know that either. I also think "shall" is certainly not an obsolete word.

 

[5jj]

How about this?

 

[Rover_KE]

The same quote goes on to say

"Shall" is also obsolete. When was the last time you heard it used in everyday speech?

Let's just disagree with the statement that 'shall' is officious and obsolete, shall we?

Rover

 

[SoothingDave]

Apart from set phrases (like "shall we...?") and the law, it is basically obsolete in AmE.

No mother tells her kids "today you shall clean your rooms."

 

[Allen165]

"Obsolete" is not provided as a meaning of "officious" on thefreedictionary.com. The fourth meaning of "officious" - attentive or obliging - is obsolete.

 

[5jj]

"Obsolete" is not provided as a meaning of "officious" on thefreedictionary.com. The fourth meaning of "officious" - attentive or obliging - is obsolete.

Nobody has said that 'officious' means 'obsolete'

 

[poorboy_9]

Maybe it's me, but I only use "shall" (infrequently) when "will" doesn't carry enough weight. My favorite quote is from The Ten Commandments- the Pharao says: So it is written; so it shall be done!

 

[BobK]

"'Shall' is one of those officious and obsolete words that has encumbered legal style writing for many years." (Federal Plain Language Guidelines: Use “must” to indicate requirements)

I don't know what the writer means by "officious." ..
Any ideas?

Thanks!

Nor do I. I think it means that the writer doesn't know what 'officious' means. I think they're using it to imply 'not good'. It may sometimes be a feature of official language; that doesn't make it 'officious'.

b

 

[SoothingDave]

Nor dop I. I think it means that the writer doesn't know what 'officious' means.

b

He/she seems to think it means "official sounding."

 

[Barb_D]

I'm pretty sure the writer knew what it meant.

Many people who try to sound important will use words that another without the interfering ego would not use.

• "It's really imporpant to complete your time sheet every week. It's not only a legal requirement, but it really hard for Payroll to get your checks to you on time if they have to hunt you down to get your hours."
• "Employees shall fortwith complete their time sheets on at least a weekly basis. Employees shall not be paid if the time sheet is not submitted and approved on a timely basis."

Which one sounds officious?

 

[5jj]

I"Employees shall forthwith complete their time sheets on at least a weekly basis. Employees shall not be paid if the time sheet is not submitted and approved on a timely basis."

:up:
A perfect example of 'officious shall'.

I agree with Barb that the writer knew very well what officious (see post #3) means.

 

[Allen165]

How can a word mean "showing an annoying tendency to take your position or status too seriously"? That's the meaning provided on the site you linked to.

 

[5jj]

How can a word mean "showing an annoying tendency to take your position or status too seriously"? That's the meaning provided on the site you linked to.

It's an extension of meaning from the person who uses the word to the word itself.

 

[BobK]

That's a good definition. I'm still not happy with the extension from the person to the word - although that sort of extension is not uncommon ;-) - andI like the idea of extending from the word to the usage: your 'officious shall' is a useful category (and I agree that Barb's was a good example).

b