There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

[EngFan]

Hi All,


I always listen English Radio programme, sometimes I hear the native speakers would pronounce the word "Eleven" which has two different pronunciations in the first syllable. In phonetics symbol, the first pronunciation I hear is /i ˈlev ən/ another one is /ə ˈlev ən/. I wanted to know which pronunciation is more popular in the English word. Please advise!


EngFan

 

[konungursvia]

Once you have become a near native, you won't think those two are significantly different. Either sounds normal, and most people wouldn't pay any attention to the difference. The point is the second vowel is well and clearly pronounced. The first and third can be any where between the 2 vowels you mention (assuming you mean /I/ when you write /i/.)

 

[raindoctor]

Add one more variant: elebm in fast tempos.

 

[birdeen's call]

Add one more variant: elebm in fast tempos.

I don't understand what that means. What's "elebm"?

 

[5jj]

I don't understand what that means. What's "elebm"?

I imagine it's /elebm/

 

[birdeen's call]

I imagine it's /elebm/

And that's a pronunciation of "eleven" native speakers use? I don't think I have encountered it.

 

[konungursvia]

Yes, but I'd say it's as rare as George Bush's "idn't it?"

 

[5jj]

And that's a pronunciation of "eleven" native speakers use? I don't think I have encountered it.

When /n/ is followed by a biliabial (as in eleven men, eleven boys, eleven pigs), it can assimilate to /m/. It's possible in fast speech for the lips to close before the /v/ has been released, leading to a nasally released /b/. I don't think it's particularly common, and I think that most native speakers would believe that they pronounced or heard /vən/.

I do model and get my learners to use assimilation when it is what most native speakers do naturally, but I would not model or mention this version to them.

 

[birdeen's call]

Thanks. I think I will need to hear this to fully believe it's possible, but I accept your answers of course.

 

[5jj]

Thanks. I think I will need to hear this to fully believe it's possible, but I accept your answers of course.

Try saying 'eleven men' -/əlevəmmen/. I have transcribed that with two /m/s to suggest that the assimilated /n/ makes the /m/ sound longer than it would be with a single /m/ - /əlevəmen/, just as the /m/ sound in Tom Merrick is longer than that in Tom Errick.

Now try it again with syllabic m - /əlevmmen/.

Finally, close your lips after the second schwa (forgetting the /v/), and release the /m/ sound nasally before the lips open for the /e/. I think you'll find that the two words come out fairly naturally, and you'll see how an /əlebm/ (not /elebm/) version is possible. If you then say a sentence reasonably quickly with this pronunciation, you'll probably find that it doesn't sound as unnatural as you though it would.

Last Saturday at Fratton Park, disappointed spectators watched eleven men desperately trying to pretend they were a team.

 

[birdeen's call]

Well, I do understand what you're saying, but I must say I can't make it sound natural. Or maybe it's not about the sound of it, but my motoric habit. Anyway, making the /v/ bilabial is strange to me when I pronounce this word. Perhaps if I heard someone else say it, it wouldn't sound strange at all. But I'm almost sure I have never done it myself. Well, until now.

 

[birdeen's call]

Having tried a couple more times, I think I have no problem with əle:nmen and əlevm:en. əle:m:en and similar pronunciations are going too far for me I guess.

 

[raindoctor]

I don't understand what that means. What's "elebm"?

This is what I mean: [ɪˈlɛbm̩] Here m is syllabic or b is nasally released. This has nothing to do with the word that follows the word 'seven'. This kind of variation heard in words like seven, open, happen, etc.

Even words like ad'mit and ad'mire have variations: ab'mit and ab'mire. Here, there is no syllabic m.

The word government is pronounced as gubmint. Here, it is like the pronunciation of seven described above.

 

[birdeen's call]

I have no problem at all with abmit and abmire. Are you saying the following short conversation is possible?

"haʊ menɪ?"
"sem̩."

where the m̩ is syllabic with a bit of more pressure at the beginning? For some reason, I find it more likely than the eleven case.

PS: I find this completely impossible in "open"!

 

[raindoctor]

b is missing there. [sebm̩] is accepted. You are not going to hear that from pulpit, where non-functor words tend to be emphasized more often. Call it a register variant. I don't know whether it is heard in BrE.

My dentist's hygenist (in Northern California) uses [ˈoʊpm̩], when she asks her patients to open their mouths while cleaning. Just as a single word, no word before or after.

Someone from 1930's discussed this phenomenon. Charles-James Bailey discussed it as well. It is more of a tempo/register variant.

 

[birdeen's call]

Would the hygenist do that in "open up" too? And in "it's open"?

 

[raindoctor]

Would the hygenist do that in "open up" too? And in "it's open"?

I don't know. I've just checked M-W, which lists this variant for open, seven and happen. Kenyon and Knott lists syllabic m for seven, eleven, happen, open, heaven.

Check this out: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bwte3_9g4U6oRFcwSjhZR194cWs

 

[birdeen's call]

I asked because you convinced me about the particular situation you described. My intuition is that this is impossible in "open up", and less probable in "it's open". I still can't get used to it in "eleven".

Thanks for the link.

 

[Tdol]

I don't know whether it is heard in BrE.

I've heard it.

 

[BobK]

And that's a pronunciation of "eleven" native speakers use? I don't think I have encountered it.

It is, as phoneticians say, allophonic utterance-finally*. ;-)

b

PS * ... and, as 5jj said, when there's assimilation (due to a following bilabial). As he also said, most native speakers aren't aware of it, and even dispute it when you tell them - until they see a spectrogram.