It strikes me as odd.

[anhnha]

I have just seen these sentences below in a post.
1. It strikes me as odd.
2. It strikes me as being odd.

I am not sure about the word "as" here. Is the word an adverb in #1 and a preposition in #2?

 

[TheParser]

1. It strikes me as odd.

Hello, Anhnha:

Here is what a famous source says:

"A prepositional verb [my emphasis] of this same unusual [my emphasis] pattern is strike ... as in, for example: He struck me as a brilliant strategist."

The source explains that "a brilliant strategist" is subject complement.

2. Another source reminds us that "The preposition [my emphasis] in a prepositional verb [my emphasis] must precede its complement."

a. I guess that means that "It strikes me odd as" is not possible.

*****

IF you believe those two sources, you may wish to consider "as" in #1 as a preposition.

*****

ONLY my thoughts. If "as" is a preposition, I ask myself: How can an adjective such as "odd" follow it? I have an explanation, but I do not want to spread possibly wrong ideas. Maybe a teacher will give us the answer to that puzzle.


James


"A famous source" is A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (1985 edition) by Randolph Quirk, et al., page 1,200.

"Another source" is A Grammar of Contemporary English (1973) by Quirk and Greenbaum, page 349.



P.S. On page 736 of the first source, we are told:

" 'She struck me as happy' cannot occur in the passive, and therefore may ... be considered [a middle verb]."

 

[anhnha]

Thanks, James, for reminding me about prepositional verbs.
I know the term and some of the verbs. However, "strike...as" is not one of them.
You asked a great question.
How can an adjective such as "odd" follow it?
I read some similar explanations a year ago about "for free".
Could you share the explanation? I think it is interesting and helpful to read even it is wrong.

 

[TheParser]

Hello, Anhnha:

I have found some info that will knock your socks off (make you super happy!).

It comes from pages 1200 and 1201 from that big book that I cited.

The four scholars discuss other prepositional verbs.

They give this example: "The media described the situation as hopeless [my emphasis]."

Now read their exciting explanation:

"The construction is exceptional in allowing an adjective phrase to occur after a preposition. A more orthodox construction is obtained by adding the word being before the adjective phrase, and thereby converting the prepositional complement into a nominal -ing clause."

Thus, we get "The media described the situation as being hopeless."

That is what you implied in your first post. Congratulations on your great insight!

Thanks so much for asking this question. I learned soooooo much!




James

 

[anhnha]

Thanks a lot, James. :up:
It is your great insight not me! I didn't expect the answer is in the first post.
Both sentences are from a student in the forum.
I feel much more confident to use it now.

 

[Crowned 91]

Hello anhnha and James!;-)
Thank you for your posts!
Anhnha, I think you have read my thread (correct me if I am wrong ). Thank you again for asking this question and James, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your explanation.I have been looking for this kind of answer for three months or so.
If you want to and have time,could you please read my post which deals with this issue? It is called "Analysis of English sentences"(in "Linguistics"). However, my analysis is boring and clumsy compared to yours,so forgive me!

 

[anhnha]

Hello Crowned,
You are completely right. Those sentences are from your thread. I believe James will help you soon.

 

[TheParser]

Hello, Crowned:

Thank you for your kind note.

I OCCASIONALLY try to comment in the "Ask a Teacher" forum and in this forum (because I am madly in love with the Reed-Kellogg diagramming system),

but I NEVER dare post in the "Linguistics" forum. I feel that it is a forum only for people who know their "linguistics," and I certainly do NOT. Even the word scares me.

I am so glad that you and Anhnha posted this topic.


James

*****

Here is something that may interest you and Anhnha:

1. In past years, it seems that many grammarians felt that "as" should NEVER be parsed as a preposition.
2. Today, of course, that "rule" is no longer considered valid. After all, that big book that I cited says that "as" is a preposition in sentences such as "It strikes me as (being) odd."
3. Please look at this sentence from a very good (in my opinion!) book:

"This tree will serve us as a windshield."

a. Do you think that most people would simply call "as" a preposition?

b. Well, this book claims that the sentence is simply an ellipsis of a much longer sentence. It claims that the "complete" sentence is:

"This tree will serve us as [ = conjunction] a windshield [would serve us]."

c. IF that is true, is it possible that there is also an ellipsis in something like: "It strikes me as odd that James refused to marry Mona."

(i) Is it possible, then, that the "complete" sentence would be something like:

"It strikes me as [something] odd [would strike me] that James refused to marry Mona."

I am not confident to say either way. But I AM confident to say that most people in 2014 would say, "Call it a preposition and forget about the matter."

But since I want to diagram it, I would like to know.

Hopefully, Mr. A -- who often draws diagrams in this forum -- will help us.

(That "good" book is English Review Grammar (1940; copyright renewed in 1968) by Walter Kay Smart. He has given the most complete explanation about the word "as" that I have ever found. He states: "The word as presents many difficult problems." He is SO right! And he claims: "In most instances, as coveys at least a suggestion of an adverbial relation."

 

[Crowned 91]

James,thank you very much for your further explanation.It was very helpful.;-)
I think that the sentence in the first post is quite peculiar (as you have pointed out).
Take a look at these examples:
1)It strikes me as odd.>>It(subject)-strikes(verb)- me(object)-odd(subject complement).
2)I see it as odd.>>I(subject)-see(verb)-it(object)-odd(object complement).
(This analysis is not at all accurate.Sorry!)

I agree with you on the fact that in 1) odd is a subject complement, not an object complement since it modifies the subject "it" not the object "me".
However, in 2) the same adjective is used to modify the object "it" not the subject "I".(What do you think of that? Does it make sense to you?)

Again, I agree with you on the fact that "It strikes me as odd" cannot be changed from the active voice to the passive one.
If I remember well (correct me if I am wrong), in a passive sentence the subject is the object of the sentence in the active form.
"It strikes me as odd" should become "I am struck by it as odd." ***(I have never read a sentence like that and I do not think that it could work)
2)"I see it as odd">>As far as this example is concerned, I am quite happy with its passive form (Maybe it is clumsy)>> It is seen as odd (by me).But here "odd" is a subject complement (it modifies the subject "it").

I think that another peculiar example might be "come across as... "
E.g.She comes across as odd. (odd= subject complement) I do not think that it can be changed from the active form to the passive one.

P.S.In one of your posts you said that other prepositional verbs were discussed in your (wonderful) book. You wrote an example with "describe...as".Could "see...as" be one of them?

 

[TheParser]

1)It strikes me as odd.>>It(subject)-strikes(verb)- me(object)-odd(subject complement).
2)I see it as odd.>>I(subject)-see(verb)-it(object)-odd(object complement).
(This analysis is not at all accurate.Sorry!)



P.S.In one of your posts you said that other prepositional verbs were discussed in your (wonderful) book. Could "see...as" be one of them?

Hello, Crowned:

Your excellent questions are waaaay over my head (beyond my understanding)! But I do have a few comments:

1. That "wonderful book" is the world-famous A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language by Quirk and three other scholars. I have the 1985 edition of 1179 pages! There's a new edition, of course. If you ever find yourself in a good library, check it out. You can find their answer to almost anything (if you can locate the page!). Maybe it's online (for a charge). I do not know. It has long been considered the most complete grammar book. Some scholars, however, do NOT agree with all of its conclusions.

2. You say that your analysis of #1 and #2 is not accurate. Isn't it? That wonderful book seems to agree with your analysis! Here is what it says:

a. She made him a good husband. = "good husband" is the object complement


b. She made him a good wife. = "good wife" is the subject complement.


*****

3. Yes, that book does mention "see as." (page 1200) It is a prepositional verb with an obligatory preposition. It does not give an example.

*****

4. Finally, let me end this post with a bit of humor.

a. A gentleman named Wilson Follett wrote a book entitled Modern American Usage.

i. I chuckled (gentle laughter) when I read this:

"One of the worst troublemakers is as; an exhaustive account of its misdoings is next to impossible."



James

 

[Crowned 91]

I think I will need that book!:-D It might be my "Bible".;-)
It is true "as" is quite difficult to handle.
Thank you again, James for sharing your views and bits of your book!