Live, work, study and learn with the present perfect and progressive

[Tarheel]

The last time I was in a classroom (a long time ago) the teacher only asked one question at a time. Not six. And if a student had a question for the teacher they only asked one question at a time. Not six. Now there might be a follow up question, but still it's one at a time. That way you can focus on that question before you go to the next one.

When you load up a post with all the questions you can think of it makes it hard to follow. I think it's better for everybody if you ask one question at a time. (That makes it easier for the learners, I'm sure.)

Ask one question. Then go to the next one. Please!

 

[Rachel Adams]

Ask one question. Then go to the next one. Please![/QUOTE]

Sorry, if my questions were not clear or if I asked too many. I was so glad I finally understood where my misunderstanding was. I was wondering if my statements in post 13 are correct. I have read different discussions and explanations but none of them were as clear and easy to understand as emsr2d2's. I posted one of them again if it is not clear which post I am talking about. I am talking about this statement:

"Exactly! I made another mistake in my textbook which I understand now. "The builders have been building this house for 10 months." If I remember correctly the exercise asked to choose the tense which suggested that the action was ongoing.
I mistakenly chose the present perfect instead of the progressive."

If I hopefully don't misunderstand the present perfect is not correct, is it? I am talking about the example about building the house.

 

[GoesStation]

"The builders have been building this house for 10 months."

…

If I hopefully don't misunderstand the present perfect is not correct, is it?

That's right. You can't say The builders have built the house for a period of time. You need the continuous to describe an ongoing activity.

 

[Rachel Adams]

That's right. You can't say The builders have built the house for a period of time. You need the continuous to describe an ongoing activity.

the other question was about this explanation:

"If you were moving out of your childhood home imminently, and you're standing outside that house, you would say "I'm moving to a new house today. I lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it" or similar. As you can see, the simple past suffices there.
The same goes for the day you leave a particular job - "I worked here for ten years and I loved every minute of it. I'll miss you all!"


Regarding this explanation I also wanted to say if the progressive is used in such examples as "the ground is wet it has been raining" or "my hands are dirty. I have been gardening." I thought I could use the present perfect progressive when talking about moving out of my childhood house and leaving your job to refer to any action which has been in progress and has just finished. I wasn't right, was I?

 

[5jj]

It is possible to say:

I'm moving to a new house today. I lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.
I'm moving to a new house today. I have lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.
I'm moving to a new house today. I have been living here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.

 

[Rachel Adams]

It is possible to say:

I'm moving to a new house today. I lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.
I'm moving to a new house today. I have lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.
I'm moving to a new house today. I have been living here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.

Thank you. So it depends on each native speaker. It's probably the same when leaving your job. Is it? "I have been working here for ten years. I'll miss you all!" One option is with the present perfect as emsr2d2 suggested and the other one is the present perfect continuous if I am right.
I understand that everything depends on context but as a learner I was wondering if in the situations I was talking about either tense is grammatically correct.

 

[5jj]

Full context is the main thing. I would probably use the present perfect non-continuous form in:

I'm moving to a new house today. I've lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.
I've worked here for ten years and I've loved every minute of it. I'll miss you all.

 

[Tarheel]

I'm sorry if my questions were not clear or if I asked too many. I am glad I finally understand where my misunderstanding was. I am wondering if my statements in post 13 are correct. I have read different discussions and explanations but none of them were as clear and easy to understand as emsr2d2's. I posted one of them again. If it is not clear which post I am talking about, I am talking about this statement:

"Exactly! I made another mistake in my textbook, which I understand now. "The builders have been building this house for 10 months." If I remember correctly the exercise asks the student to choose the tense which indicates that the action is ongoing. I mistakenly chose the present perfect instead of the progressive."

If I hopefully don't misunderstand the present perfect is not correct, is it?

Please don't go there again. In fact, let"s forget we even visited that place.

I am talking about the example about building the house.

I am still my first cup of coffee, so I am trying to get up to speed.

I do have one thought. Just as I don't speak every thought that comes to mind, I don't type every thought that comes to mind. (Maybe that's just me, but I don't think so.)

I am sure that you remember what you put in post 13 better than I do.
:-|

I suggest that you forget the phrase "understand mistakes". (We learn from our mistakes or we correct our mistakes.) You could say: "I understand why I made that mistake" but that's different.

 

[Tarheel]

the other question was about this explanation:

"If you were moving out of your childhood home imminently, and you're standing outside that house, you would say "I'm moving to a new house today. I lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it" or similar. As you can see, the simple past suffices there.
The same goes for the day you leave a particular job - "I worked heyourre for ten years and I loved every minute of it. I'll miss you all!"


Regarding this explanation, I also wanted to say if the progressive is used in such examples as "The ground is wet; it has been raining" or "My hands are dirty. I have been gardening." I thought I could use the present perfect progressive when talking about moving out of childhood house and leaving your job to refer to any action which has been in progress and has just finished. I wasn't right, was I?

That's the same as saying "I was wrong, wasn't I?" Is that what you mean to say?

Quite a lot of work.
:-|

 

[Rachel Adams]

Full context is the main thing. I would probably use the present perfect non-continuous form in:

I'm moving to a new house today. I've lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.
I've worked here for ten years and I've loved every minute of it. I'll miss you all.

The continuous and the present perfect indicate the same thing when used with some verbs such as "live" and "work" but are there other verbs or is it just these two verbs?

 

[5jj]

The continuous and the present perfect indicate the same thing when used with some verbs such as "live" and "work"

I would not say they meant the same thing. If a different form is used, there is almost always some difference in meaning, however slight. However, with these two verbs, the difference in some contexts is, for practical purposes, insignificant.

but are there other verbs or is it just these two verbs?

There are others. I, for example, see no significant difference between I have watched westerns for over seventy years and I have been watching westerns for over seventy years.

 

[Rachel Adams]

It is possible to say:

I'm moving to a new house today. I lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.
I'm moving to a new house today. I have lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.
I'm moving to a new house today. I have been living here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.

You said you would use the present perfect non-continuous form in:

"I'm moving to a new house today. I've lived here for twenty years! I'll really miss it.
I've worked here for ten years and I've loved every minute of it. I'll miss you all." Do you mean you wouldn't use the progressive in "I have been working..?" It's amazing how everything depends on context. All three tenses are correct in "I lived," "I have lived," and "I have been living." :shock: I am talking about your quoted examples.
Can I use the following idea if it can be called an idea as a general guidance? I am judging by the examples I read in this discussion. I moving out of the house (now) or I am in a similar situation, when something is no longer in progress. I am standing outside the house. I no longer live there. I use the past simple. On the last day of working or living somewhere as in your examples I see that all three tenses the present perfect, the present perfect continuous and the past simple are all possible. As in the quoted part above. Before the final day only the present perfect continuous works because the action is still in progress but when the day is finished both the present perfect and the past simple are correct.

 

[5jj]

Rachel, you seem to be trying to find rules that tell you exactly what tense/aspect we can use closely defined in minutes or hours. We don't work that way. We don't plan the tense/aspect we are going to use in speech (though we may in careful writing). We say the words that spring into our mind. It's probable that if part of our mind is focused on the pastness of a situation, even if it is not fully past, then we will use a past tense. If it's focused on the continuation up to the (near-)present), even if it is actually past, we will use a present perfect form. If it's focused on the ongoingness/duration of the situation, even if it is now past, we may use a present perfect progressive. If three of the people who have responded so far were to find themselves in exactly identical situations, each might use a different form.

Stop trying to pin things down too exactly. There are no hard-and-fast rules for the uses of tenses/aspects in every situation you might encounter.

 

[Rachel Adams]

I would not say they meant the same thing. If a different form is used, there is almost always some difference in meaning, however slight. However, with these two verbs, the difference in some contexts is, for practical purposes, insignificant.There are others. I, for example, see no significant difference between I have watched westerns for over seventy years and I have been watching westerns for over seventy years.

Is "teach" also used in both tenses? "She has been teaching English for 5 years" and "She has taught English for 5 years" to mean that she is still teaching .

 

[5jj]

As I said in an earlier post, I would not say they meant the same thing. If a different form is used, there is almost always some difference in meaning, however slight.

 

[Rachel Adams]

As I said in an earlier post, I would not say they meant the same thing. If a different form is used, there is almost always some difference in meaning, however slight.

Yes, I remember that. I mean is it correct to use "teach" in the present perfect? It doesn't work with "learn" as far as I know. "I have learnt English for two years" is wrong.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Yes, I remember that. I mean is it correct to use "teach" in the present perfect? It doesn't work with "learn" as far as I know. "I have learnt English for two years" is wrong.

That's only because there's a difference between learning and studying.

 

[Rachel Adams]

The verbs live work study and teach

How many verbs are there in English that can be used either in present perfect or present continuous without any difference in meaning? I have learnt that these verbs are: "live", "work", "study" and "teach".

I am confused by different explanations from different native speakers.

"Study" is one of the verbs that isn't used without a change in meaning." This was written by a native speaker.


1. "I have been learning/studying English for two months."

2. "I have learnt/studied English for two months." 1 and 2 don't mean that the person is still learning/studying English.

But I have also read another explanation: "Sometimes especially with the verbs "study", "live", "work" there is no difference in meaning. She has been studying English for two years/she has studied English for two years" both mean she is still studying it."

Is this the difference between AmE and BrE?

 

[probus]

Re: The verbs live work study and teach

In my opinion learnt is exclusively British. In AmE we use learned. That is the only BrE/AmE difference in the passage. However, I would never use "I have learnt/learned English", because even though I am a native speaker I am still learning English.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Re: The verbs live work study and teach

In my opinion learnt is exclusively British. In AmE we use learned. That is the only BrE/AmE difference in the passage. However, I would never use "I have learnt/earned English", because even though I am a native speaker I am still learning English.

Thank you. But regarding the difference between "I have been learning English for two months" and "I have been studying English for two months" don't they both mean that the person is still studying/learning with present perfect continuous, but with present perfect the speaker isn't studying/learning as in this example: "She has learnt English for two months" doesn't express that she is still learning it. But "She has been studying English for two years/she has studied English for two years" both mean she is still studying it." Am I right?