a couple who is arguing

[Tdol]

Both what?

Plural: The class respect the teacher.
Plural: The class are debating among themselves.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Most BrE speakers nowadays would use the plural for both, and some style guides for BrE recommend this.

Makes sense. Again in British novels, I often see group nouns (e.g. group) coupled with plural verbs: the group are restless, the committee were divided.

I also remember high school English teachers who (maybe wrongly) said that a difference between American and British English is that the British don't use singular verbs with group nouns. But reading this thread, it's hard to tell. Interesting, though!

 

[Tdol]

It's not an absolute rule in BrE, but is the common way of handling things. The BBC style guide recommended the plural in most cases.

 

[jutfrank]

From the BBC style guide:

Singular and plural

Treat collective nouns - companies, governments and other bodies - as singular. There are some exceptions:

• Family, couple or pair, where using the singular can sound odd
• Sports teams - although they are singular in their role as business concerns (eg: Arsenal has declared an increase in profits)
• Rock/pop groups
• The police, as in Police say they are looking for three men. But individual forces are singular (eg The Metropolitan Police says there is no need to panic).

 

[jutfrank]

Re: police

It's interesting how the BBC feels the need to make a distinction there.

 

[Tdol]

Their view is inconsistent:

The rule here is that there are not any - collective nouns can be singular or plural.

But you should be consistent. If in doubt, do what comes naturally.

And others, like the Guardian view datum as a non-occurrent form:

https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-d

I will dig it out, but I have seen the opposite recommended.

 

[Tdol]

Re: police

It's interesting how the BBC feels the need to make a distinction there.

And they're making a distinction where not many would.

 

[jutfrank]

I wonder which of the following our AmE-speaking members prefer?

1. The L.A.P.D. says it is looking for three men.
2. The L.A.P.D. say they are looking for three men.
3. The L.A.P.D. says they are looking for three men.

 

[GoesStation]

I wonder which of the following our AmE-speaking members prefer?

1. The L.A.P.D. says it is looking for three men.
2. The L.A.P.D. say they are looking for three men.
3. The L.A.P.D. says they are looking for three men.

Like the number five when throwing hand grenades, number 2 is right out. (We don't actually say anything is right out in American English except when quoting Monty Python.) Number 1 is my first choice, and the seemingly-illogical number 3 works OK.

 

[Roman55]

Well, I don't go along with the BBC on that one. I'd use 'are'.

I think, no, I know that you meant to say, say. "The Metropolitan Police say[STRIKE]s[/STRIKE] there is no need to panic"

 

[Tdol]

Like the number five when throwing hand grenades, number 2 is right out. (We don't actually say anything is right out in American English except when quoting Monty Python.) Number 1 is my first choice, and the seemingly-illogical number 3 works OK.

Number two ticks my box. ;-)

 

[jutfrank]

1. The L.A.P.D. says it is looking for three men.
2. The L.A.P.D. say they are looking for three men.
3. The L.A.P.D. says they are looking for three men.

Number 1 is my first choice, and the seemingly-illogical number 3 works OK.

Thanks. One more question. Let's change the subject phrase to something a bit less specific. Same answer?

1b. The police says it is looking for three men.
2b. The police say they are looking for three men.
3b. The police says they are looking for three men.

And finally, even less specific:

1c. Police says it is looking for three men.
2c. Police say they are looking for three men.
3c. Police says they are looking for three men.

I assume that nobody would choose anything other than 2c. Why is this?

 

[Tdol]

I would choose 2b.

 

[GoesStation]

1. The L.A.P.D. says it is looking for three men.
2. The L.A.P.D. say they are looking for three men.
3. The L.A.P.D. says they are looking for three men.



Thanks. One more question. Let's change the subject phrase to something a bit less specific. Same answer?

1b. The police says it is looking for three men.
2b. The police say they are looking for three men.
3b. The police says they are looking for three men.

And finally, even less specific:

1c. Police says it is looking for three men.
2c. Police say they are looking for three men.
3c. Police says they are looking for three men.

I assume that nobody would choose anything other than 2c. Why is this?

The LAPD means "the Los Angeles Police Department", which is singular, hence my choice of number 1. The police​ is a collective noun which takes a plural form in American English, so only 2b and 2c work.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I wonder which of the following our AmE-speaking members prefer?

1. The L.A.P.D. says it is looking for three men.
2. The L.A.P.D. say they are looking for three men.
3. The L.A.P.D. says they are looking for three men.

We won't necessarilty agree, but:

- I like #1. (See the Hacker and Chicago quotes above.)

- I don't like #2, but I suppose it's possible as long as you're consistent.

- I hate #3, but there are plenty of Americans who'd use and defend it.