Adverbial phrase?

[jasonkhlim]

Hi there.
1. ''I wanted my first time to be with someone I cared about.''
''to be with someone I cared about'' = adverbial phrase?

2. ''She does not want me to lie to her.''
Is there an adverbial phrase in this sentence? Or indirect object?

Thanks in advance.

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello, Jason:

1. Please study this sentence from one of my books: "The dean requested me to report at once." ***

a. Do you feel (that) that sentence has the same structure as "She does not want me to lie to her"?

b. IF you do, then here would probably be that book's explanation for your sentence:

i. "Me to lie to her" is an infinitive clause/phrase. (The choice of word depends on your book/teacher.)
ii. "Me" is parsed as the subject of "to lie to her."
iii. You have probably already guessed that "me to lie to her" is the direct object of the verb "does want." ("Not" is an adverb. It is not parsed as a verb.)

(P.S. In English, it does NOT sound natural to say something like: "She does not want that I should lie to her." Thus, speakers use the infinitive clause/phrase structure.)

2. Here is something super important (from the same book).

a. "We promised her to come."

i. In that kind of sentence, "her" is NOT the subject of "to come."
ii. "to come" is the direct object of "promised." ("We promised to come.")
iii. You have probably already guessed that "her" is the indirect object."




*** Pence and Emery, A Grammar of Present-Day English (1947).

 

[emsr2d2]

I would like to add that "We promised her to come" is unnatural, in BrE at least. "We promised her that we would come" is how it's generally worded here. This might have something to do with the fact that The Parser's quote comes from a book written in 1947.

 

[jasonkhlim]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello, Jason:

1. Please study this sentence from one of my books: "The dean requested me to report at once." ***

a. Do you feel (that) that sentence has the same structure as "She does not want me to lie to her"?

b. IF you do, then here would probably be that book's explanation for your sentence:

i. "Me to lie to her" is an infinitive clause/phrase. (The choice of word depends on your book/teacher.)
ii. "Me" is parsed as the subject of "to lie to her."
iii. You have probably already guessed that "me to lie to her" is the direct object of the verb "does want." ("Not" is an adverb. It is not parsed as a verb.)

(P.S. In English, it does NOT sound natural to say something like: "She does not want that I should lie to her." Thus, speakers use the infinitive clause/phrase structure.)

2. Here is something super important (from the same book).

a. "We promised her to come."

i. In that kind of sentence, "her" is NOT the subject of "to come."
ii. "to come" is the direct object of "promised." ("We promised to come.")
iii. You have probably already guessed that "her" is the indirect object."




*** Pence and Emery, A Grammar of Present-Day English (1947).

Thanks for the explanation.
Do you have any idea about sentence no 1?
Because now I kind of think that ''to be with someone I cared about'' is an adjectival phrase.

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Jason:

Excuse me for not addressing sentence #1 earlier, but one of the unwritten rules here is that we ordinary members should wait for a reasonable period before answering so that a teacher can answer first. Since it's been 24 hours since you first posted, I guess that I am allowed to timidly suggest a few ideas (not "answers").

I think that there are two very convincing analyses. I shall use the one that pleases me more. When you get time, please read everything that you can in books and on the Web regarding the topic of infinitive phrases/clauses. You can then decide which analysis pleases you more.

With your permission, I shall discuss a sentence similar to yours. (I do not think that it would be a good idea to discuss your original sentence. If you send me a personal message, I will explain why.)

So let's work with this sentence that I have made up:

"I wanted my first job to be with a company (that) I respected."

COMMENTS:

a. You feel that "to be with a company I respected" is an adjectival phrase.
b. As you can see, "to be" is an infinitive. So I am 99.99% sure that "everyone" would agree that "to be with a company I respected" is an infinitive phrase/clause.
c. Now here is my favorite analysis:

i. I = subject.
ii. wanted = verb.
iii. my first job to be with a company I respected = an infinitive phrase/clause that is the object of the verb "wanted."

Question: What did you want?
Answer: My first job to be with a company I respected.

 

[MikeNewYork]

i. "Me to lie to her" is an infinitive clause/phrase. (The choice of word depends on your book/teacher.)
ii. "Me" is parsed as the subject of "to lie to her."
iii. You have probably already guessed that "me to lie to her" is the direct object of the verb "does want." ("Not" is an adverb. It is not parsed as a verb.)

I strongly disagree with your analysis.

First, infinitives do not take subjects.
Second, even if they did, the pronoun "me" as an object pronoun cannot be the subject of anything.

I encourage you to come up with a different analysis.

 

[jasonkhlim]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Jason:

Excuse me for not addressing sentence #1 earlier, but one of the unwritten rules here is that we ordinary members should wait for a reasonable period before answering so that a teacher can answer first. Since it's been 24 hours since you first posted, I guess that I am allowed to timidly suggest a few ideas (not "answers").

I think that there are two very convincing analyses. I shall use the one that pleases me more. When you get time, please read everything that you can in books and on the Web regarding the topic of infinitive phrases/clauses. You can then decide which analysis pleases you more.

With your permission, I shall discuss a sentence similar to yours. (I do not think that it would be a good idea to discuss your original sentence. If you send me a personal message, I will explain why.)

So let's work with this sentence that I have made up:

"I wanted my first job to be with a company (that) I respected."

COMMENTS:

a. You feel that "to be with a company I respected" is an adjectival phrase.
b. As you can see, "to be" is an infinitive. So I am 99.99% sure that "everyone" would agree that "to be with a company I respected" is an infinitive phrase/clause.
c. Now here is my favorite analysis:

i. I = subject.
ii. wanted = verb.
iii. my first job to be with a company I respected = an infinitive phrase/clause that is the object of the verb "wanted."

Question: What did you want?
Answer: My first job to be with a company I respected.

First of all, thanks for your explanation again.
So you mean ''my first job to be with a company I respected'' is a direct object?
But I was told that Infinitive phrases can act as nouns, adjectives, or adverbs and prepositional phrases can act as adjective and adverb.

So, this is how I see it.
I = subject
wanted = verb
my first job = object
to be with a company I respected = ?

 

[TheParser]

(1) But I was told that Infinitive phrases can act as nouns.

So, this is how I see it.
I = subject
wanted = verb
my first job = object
to be with a company I respected = ?

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Jason:

1. Yes, you are correct. An infinitive phrase/clause can act as a noun. As you know, a direct object is a nominative (like a noun). (E.g., "I want to eat some ice cream.")

2. My analysis comes from many reputable books. Many teachers feel that it is the most logical.

a. You have brought up the other equally good analysis.

i. As you said, you may parse "my first job" as the direct object.

(a) Then "to be with a company I respected" would be a so-called objective complement.

(i) In other words, if you suddenly said "I wanted my first job," that sentence would confuse your listener. So you say "to be with a company I respected." It is called an objective complement because it refers to the object "job" and it "completes" the meaning of the sentence.

(ii) As you can see, it starts with "to be," an infinitive. Thus, it is classified as an infinitive phrase/clause.

 

[jasonkhlim]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Jason:

1. Yes, you are correct. An infinitive phrase/clause can act as a noun. As you know, a direct object is a nominative (like a noun). (E.g., "I want to eat some ice cream.")

2. My analysis comes from many reputable books. Many teachers feel that it is the most logical.

a. You have brought up the other equally good analysis.

i. As you said, you may parse "my first job" as the direct object.

(a) Then "to be with a company I respected" would be a so-called objective complement.

(i) In other words, if you suddenly said "I wanted my first job," that sentence would confuse your listener. So you say "to be with a company I respected." It is called an objective complement because it refers to the object "job" and it "completes" the meaning of the sentence.

(ii) As you can see, it starts with "to be," an infinitive. Thus, it is classified as an infinitive phrase/clause.

Hello, TheParser
Can I say that "to be with a company I respected" functions as an adjective that modifies ''Job'' ?
Same goes for my original sentence, which is ''I wanted my first time to be with someone I cared about.''
Am I correct?

 

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Jason:

First, congratulations on asking a question until you receive a reply that satisfies you. You are an excellent student.

Several years ago, I posted a question at another grammar helpline. One moderator very rudely criticized me, for he had discovered that I had posted the same question on another helpline. A fellow moderator of his then told me that, of course, I had the right to post my question on as many helplines as I pleased. So if you do not get an answer that pleases you, you should definitely feel free to ask at one of the other grammar helplines.

Second, I cannot answer your excellent question.

Third, I found a sentence that may (may) give you a little (a little) help.

a. "My father has a house to rent."

i. The book says that the object is "house."
ii. "to rent" is an infinitive phrase/clause.
iii. And, yes, "to rent" is an adjectival modifier of "house" -- the book tells us.


Fourth, but don't get too happy!

The same book gives this sentence: "We thought him to be the best player.

a. The book says that "him" is not an object. It is the subject of the infinitive. "Him" = "We thought that he was the best player."
b. The book does NOT say so, but I assume that the book would NOT classify "to be the best player" as adjectival.

Fifth, I will stop here.

Maybe the above information (which comes from a reputable book) can help you to answer your own question. I certainly do not have the confidence to do so.

Hopefully, someone here (or at another helpline) will give you the answer.


Authority: Pence & Emery, A Grammar of Present-Day English (1947).

 

[MikeNewYork]

Once again, it is my belief that infinitives don't take subjects and object pronouns cannot be the subject of any sentence or clause. The book may have been reputable in 1947, but that was 68 years ago.

 

[jasonkhlim]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Jason:

First, congratulations on asking a question until you receive a reply that satisfies you. You are an excellent student.

Several years ago, I posted a question at another grammar helpline. One moderator very rudely criticized me, for he had discovered that I had posted the same question on another helpline. A fellow moderator of his then told me that, of course, I had the right to post my question on as many helplines as I pleased. So if you do not get an answer that pleases you, you should definitely feel free to ask at one of the other grammar helplines.

Second, I cannot answer your excellent question.

Third, I found a sentence that may (may) give you a little (a little) help.

a. "My father has a house to rent."

i. The book says that the object is "house."
ii. "to rent" is an infinitive phrase/clause.
iii. And, yes, "to rent" is an adjectival modifier of "house" -- the book tells us.


Fourth, but don't get too happy!

The same book gives this sentence: "We thought him to be the best player.

a. The book says that "him" is not an object. It is the subject of the infinitive. "Him" = "We thought that he was the best player."
b. The book does NOT say so, but I assume that the book would NOT classify "to be the best player" as adjectival.

Fifth, I will stop here.

Maybe the above information (which comes from a reputable book) can help you to answer your own question. I certainly do not have the confidence to do so.

Hopefully, someone here (or at another helpline) will give you the answer.


Authority: Pence & Emery, A Grammar of Present-Day English (1947).

I see. It's ok. Some of your explanation has already solved my doubts.
Thanks again for your explanation.
Really appreciate it.

 

[jasonkhlim]

Once again, it is my belief that infinitives don't take subjects and object pronouns cannot be the subject of any sentence or clause. The book may have been reputable in 1947, but that was 68 years ago.

Hi MikeNewYork.
I also believe that infinitives do not take subject. But do you have any explanation towards my original sentences?

 

[MikeNewYork]

In your first sentence, I would call the phrase adverbial.

In your second sentence, I would call it an object complement.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I object less strongly to "understood subject", but it is still likely to confuse students. I do not agree with your second explanation. There is no such thing as an infinitival subject.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I consider it an object complement that explains the object "me". It is similar to the sentence "My mother does not like me drinking on school nights". It is not that the mother doesn't like the son; she dislikes one of his behaviors.

 

[MikeNewYork]

At one time, that was the only acceptable form: possessive adjective + gerund. Somehow object pronoun + participle became acceptable. I prefer the first, but one can't easily change the course of a river.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Yes, and I answered that. But there is some overlap with infinitives and participles.

 

[jasonkhlim]

Thanks guys.
I've realized what I wanted to know in this topic is ditranstive verb.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Do you know what a "ditransitive" verb is?