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[Grammar] and him coughing

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notletrest

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"Then the neighbour told him that he ought not to have the child there,( and him coughing as he was.=while he was coughig so much)"
In a book I met with the one and its explanation,but I still don't understand it.What's the function of "and" , "him coughing"?Is the meaning of while from the participle construction? Thanks a lot!
 
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TheParser

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notletrest said:
"Then the neighbour told him that he ought not to have the child there,( and him coughing as he was.=while he was coughig so much)"
In a book I met with the one and its explanation,but I still don't understand it.What's the function of "and" , "him coughing"?Is the meaning of while from the participle construction? Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Notletrest.

(1) I found your question VERY interesting.

(2) Yesterday, I studied my grammar books, and I MAY (perhaps)

have an answer.

**********

Your sentence is: Then the neighbor told him that he ought not to have the child there (and him coughing as he was).

**********

(a) In my opinion, the function of "and" is to introduce the words "him

coughing as he was."

(i) The word "and" is not necessary, but it makes the introduction

"smoother."

(b) In my opinion, the words "and him coughing as he was" are a short

way to say:

because he was coughing in the way that he was (coughing).

(Your book uses the word "while." I feel that "because" is better.)

(c) Therefore, your sentence means:

Then the neighbor told him that he ought not to have the child

there because he [the child] was coughing so much.

(d) By the way, I think that sometimes writers use the word "with" to

make the sentence "stronger" and maybe "clearer":

...that he ought not to have the child there -- (and) with him

coughing as he was.

***** Thank you for your question *****
 
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notletrest

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China
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TheParser said:
***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Notletrest.

(1) I found your question VERY interesting.

(2) Yesterday, I studied my grammar books, and I MAY (perhaps)

have an answer.

**********

Your sentence is: Then the neighbor told him that he ought not to have the child there (and him coughing as he was).

(a) In my opinion, the function of "and" is to introduce the words "him

coughing as he was."

(i) The word "and" is not necessary, but it makes the introduction

"smoother."

(b) In my opinion, the words "and him coughing as he was" are a short

way to say:

because he was coughing in the way that he was (coughing).

(Your book uses the word "while." I feel that "because" is better.)

(c) Therefore, your sentence means:

Then the neighbor told him that he ought not to have the child

there because he [the child] was coughing so much.

(d) By the way, I think that sometimes writers use the word "with" to

make the sentence "stronger" and maybe "clearer":

...that he ought not to have the child there -- (and) with him

coughing as he was.

***** Thank you for your question *****
Click to expand...
In my eyes,1." and " is a mistake, because I never met with and before a participle construction,and should be omitted .Can you give me another example of such "and"? 2. as he was =as he was coughing which used as an adverbial clause 3.What is the function of" there" ? Can we use here instead? Thank you for discussion!
 
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TheParser

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notletrest said:
In my eyes,1." and " is a mistake, because I never met with and before a participle construction,and should be omitted .Can you give me another example of such "and"? 2. as he was =as he was coughing which used as an adverbial clause 3.What is the function of" there" ? Can we use here instead? Thank you for discussion!
Click to expand...

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Notletrest.

(1) Thank you for your kind note.

(2) I hope that some of the great teachers at this website answer you.

(3) Until they do, please let me comment on your points:

(a) I cannot find any examples in my books re: "and."


(b) My only "evidence" is in informal American conversation, such as:

I went to that new restaurant. The food was horrible -- and you telling me last week that it had good food. And ( = but) you told me it had good food.

You are always absent. You never do your homework -- and you saying that you want to learn French. And (= but) you told me you really wanted to learn French.

(c) You believe that "him coughing as he was= as he was coughing. But what about "him?" Of course, you cannot say: "as he was him coughing."

(d) If you changed "there" (that place) to "here" (this place), would that not completely change the meaning of the sentence?

The neighbor's words: "YOU ought not to have the child HERE."

The neighbor's reported words (indirect quotation): The neighbor said

that HE ought not to have the child THERE."

(4) I shall be waiting along with you for some great teachers to

answer. I am really interested in what they have to teach you and

me.

***** Thank you for your post *****:)
 
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TheParser

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notletrest said:
In my eyes,1." and " is a mistake, because I never met with and before a participle construction,and should be omitted .Can you give me another example of such "and"? 2. as he was =as he was coughing which used as an adverbial clause 3.What is the function of" there" ? Can we use here instead? Thank you for discussion!
Click to expand...

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Notletrest.

(1) I have good news and bad news.

(2) Of course, the bad news is that none of the wonderful teachers have answered.

(3) The good news is that I have some fresh information.

(a) I sent your question to a forum (at this website) called

"Analysing and Diagramming." The expert there drew a diagram (a

map) of your sentence. Just go to that forum and click on the thread

entitled "Please R-K Nominative Absolute."

(b) I have communicated with an outstanding teacher who has taught

English for many years. She basically agrees with the points that I made

in my earlier posts. She also kindly sent two examples:

We all started walking away, with him talking to his girlfriend, and me

talking to Nate.

Whooping Alex Graham in a game of football and him complaining that

his shoulder hurt the whole time.

(4) The more you read and listen to English, the more often you will meet

this kind of sentence. Your original question was: Is this sentence

good English? The answer is: YES!!!

***** Thank you for your question *****:)
 
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Rover_KE

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. . .the bad news is that none of the wonderful teachers have answered.
Click to expand...

You're doing just fine on your own, as usual, Parser.

I for one have nothing to add.

Well done.

Rover:)
 
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notletrest

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Current Location
China
Rover_KE said:
You're doing just fine on your own, as usual, Parser.

I for one have nothing to add.

Well done.

Rover:)
Click to expand...
Thank you both for your serious attutude.
 
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