[Grammar] apostrophe s showing possession

[atabitaraf]

My question is that: Must we use "apostrophe s" just for humans or maybe animals? or we can use it for objects too?

Dubious Rule: for humans we can use "apostrophe s" for showing possession but for objects we shoud say "s.th of s.th" or "s.th s.th" without "apostrophe s" so we say:
eg1. John's book.
eg2. The door of the house.
eg3. The house door.

 

[Rover_KE]

For people and animals apostrophe s is fine.

For inanimate objects it's not as clear cut.

The tree branch is normal, but so is the tree's leaves. (The tree leaves sounds odd.)

The car windows are open is good, but if more than one car is involved, it's the cars' windows are open.

Go figure.

Rover

 

[SoothingDave]

I would say "my car's paint is peeling" not "my car paint."

 

[emsr2d2]

I would say "my car's paint is peeling" not "my car paint."

So would I. But then I would go out and buy a can of "car paint".

 

[atabitaraf]

Do you mean that for objects we can't make any gramatical rule?

 

[bhaisahab]

So would I. But then I would go out and buy a can of "car paint".

I would say "The paint on my car", I can't imagine ever saying "My car's paint" it doesn't sound natural to me.

 

[Rover_KE]

Do you mean that for objects we can't make any grammatical rule?

That's right: we can't.

Rover

 

[atabitaraf]

What would be the rule about objects? Thanks,

 

[Rover_KE]

There is no rule.

 

[Chrystalline]

No, there is a rule. "My car's paint" may sound unnatural to you, but it is perfectly legitimate. Perhaps it is uncommon in your area; every region is subject to preferences in phrasing and word choice.

The distinction between the tree branch and the tree's leaves is that, in the first phrase, "tree" is an adjective describing the noun "branch." Only the second uses the possessive. The same applies to the following:

The car windows are open is good, but if more than one car is involved, it's the cars' windows are open.

The difference is whether you're using the possessive or simply describing an object.

The only exception to the use of apostrophes for possessives is the word "its," because in that case, the apostrophe indicates the contraction for "it is."

It's = it is
Its = belongs to it

 

[Rover_KE]

No, there is a rule.

Please tell us what you think the rule is, then, Chrystalline, and state that you are not a teacher in accordance with the first of the Notices above.

Rover

 

[Chrystalline]

Please tell us what you think the rule is, then, Chrystalline, and state that you are not a teacher in accordance with the first of the Notices above.

Rover

I am not a certified classroom teacher, but I do tutor on an individual basis. Should I change my profile settings, then?

I do apologize for leaving things out; I was having some difficulty with the message board losing my post and having to re-type it, and I let my frustration get the better of me. You'd better believe I will copy this whole post before clicking submit, just in case it happens again. ;-) (It's a pity there isn't a smiley for "wry grin")

Certainly it would be easiest to link the numerous pages that came up with a Google search on "English possessives" - the page claims to have 1,290,000 results, of which the most thorough one I read was Wikipedia's article on Genitive case.

I should have said that the possessive pronouns generally do not use the apostrophe, not just "its":

my, mine
your, yours
our, ours
his, her, hers, its
their, theirs
whose

My various handbooks all have numerous pages on the matter of possessives, so I will only quote three.

The oldest, Live English Book One (Easley S. Jones, 1939), insists that

inanimate objects ... show possession by of

the front of the book [NOT the book's front]
the cost of the experiment [NOT the experiment's cost]

except in expressions of time, measure, or personification.

Time
today's paper
a year's work
two weeks' pay

Measure
a dollars' worth
fifty cents' worth
a ship's length

Personification
the world's progress
your heart's desire
for pity's sake

The Allyn & Bacon Handbook, second edition (Leonard J. Rosen and Laurence Behrens, 1994) softens this and makes it a little more vague:

Many English nouns are made possessive either with the possessive case form (a woman's voice) or with the noun as the object of the preposition of (voice of a woman). With some inanimate nouns the prepositional form is standard and the possessive case form is seldom used (NOT a house's color BUT color of a house).

It also adds nouns referring to a large group of people (mob, crowd, company) and location (place, center) to the list of nouns that should use of rather than the possessive case.

The Chicago Manual of Style, 15th edition (2003) takes four and a half pages to discuss placement of the apostrophe and which words get an "s" afterward, though it does allow as an alternate the rule I learned as a child, that all words ending in "s" get an apostrophe alone. The apostrophe is omitted only for the possessive pronouns, which I listed above.

On the subject of re-wording sentences for prepositions or possessive case, it offers:

A possessive may replace a prepositional phrase, especially an of-phrase. For example, I was dismayed by the complexity of the street map essentially equals The street map's complexity dismayed me.

So, it appears that the most recent of my references eliminates the requirement to use "of" for certain nouns and allows the writer/speaker to choose whether to use the possessive or prepositional form. However, that does not change the fact that the previous example upthread was a distinction between a possessive and an adjective:

tree leaves
Tree is the adjective describing what kind of leaves.

tree's leaves
Tree's is the possessive, describing whose leaves.

leaves of the tree
This is the prepositional form of possession.

car paint
Car is the adjective describing what kind of paint.

car's paint
Car's is the possessive describing whose paint.

paint of the car
This is the prepositional form of possession.

The car windows are open.
Car is the adjective describing the type of window; it is not possessive.

The cars' windows are open.
This is the plural possessive, describing whose windows are open.

The Chicago Manual of Style admits this distinction can be hard to understand, but

Chicago dispenses with the apostrophe only in proper names (often corporate names) or where there is clearly no possessive meaning.

a consumers' group
taxpayers' associations
children's rights
the women's team
a boys' club

but
Publishers Weekly
Diners Club
Department of Veterans Affairs
a housewares sale

 

[5jj]

Chrystalline, I don't really think we can speak of a rule when Chicago takes four and a half pages to discuss apostrophe placement, and your post, with its quotes, contains such expressions as ' generally', 'many English nouns', 'some inanimate nouns', 'seldom,' 'may replace', and 'it appears that...'.