backshifting sentences

[ostap77]

1)"He said that after he's read this book, he will give it to you."

OR

2)"He said that after he had read/read this book, he would give it to you."

OR

3)He said that having read this book, he will give it to you."

 

[corum]

All are okay, different meanings.

 

[shoaib 1]

"He said that after he's read this book, he will give it to you."

OR

"He said that after he had read/read this book, he would give it to you."

OR

He said that having read this book, he will give it to you."

The first one does not look convincing.We can't use "....after he's read..." in a sentence which started in the past tense.

 

[Raymott]

The first one does not look convincing.We can't use "....after he's read..." in a sentence which started in the past tense.

Yes we can.

 

[Raymott]

"He said that after he's read this book, he will give it to you."

OR

"He said that after he had read/read this book, he would give it to you."

OR

He said that having read this book, he will give it to you."

My choice:
"He said that when he's finished [reading] the book, he'll give it to you."

 

[ostap77]

My choice:
"He said that when he's finished [reading] the book, he'll give it to you."

3)He said that having read this book, he will give it to you."

This one means that he's already read the book and he will give it to you.?

1) and 2) menas the same the difference is the backshifting thing?

 

[corum]

We can't use "....after he's read..." in a sentence which started in the past tense.

You mean 'which started in the past [STRIKE]tense[/STRIKE]'. With all due respect, what you say is utter nonsense. With you as an English teacher, teaching must be a case of the blind leading the blind, sorry. You mix time and tense, which is bad news for your students.

 

[ostap77]

You mean 'which started in the past [STRIKE]tense[/STRIKE]'. With all due respect, what you say is utter nonsense. With you as an English teacher, teaching must be a case of the blind leading the blind, sorry. You mix time and tense, which is bad news for your students.

What about my explanation? Do I uderstand it correctly?

 

[Raymott]

What about my explanation? Do I uderstand it correctly?

Yes, but you wouldn't use the third sentence in conversation.
You might say:
"He said that, since (as, because) he's finished reading the book, he'll give it to you." or maybe:
"He said that, since (as, because) he'd finished reading the book, he'd give it to you." (had, would)

 

[ostap77]

Yes, but you wouldn't use the third sentence in conversation.
You might say:
"He said that, since (as, because) he's finished reading the book, he'll give it to you." or maybe:
"He said that, since (as, because) he'd finished reading the book, he'd give it to you." (had, would)

A bunch of thanks for your clarification!

 

[ostap77]

A bunch of thanks for your clarification!

I just came up with another question.

Is it possible to use Past Simple here

" He said that since he finished reading the book..............."

 

[Raymott]

I just came up with another question.

Is it possible to use Past Simple here

" He said that since he finished reading the book..............."

You have a problem using 'since' here - it seems to have the time meaning, not the "because" meaning in this tense.
No, I'd prefer a perfect tense. Others might disagree; it's purely from usage.
His giving the book to her is less dependent on his finishing reading than on his having finished reading.

 

[ostap77]

You have a problem using 'since' here - it seems to have the time meaning, not the "because" meaning in this tense.
No, I'd prefer a perfect tense. Others might disagree; it's purely from usage.
His giving the book to her is less dependent on his finishing reading than on his having finished reading.

I should have used "after" not "since" in this one?

 

[Raymott]

I should have used "after" not "since" in this one?

No, you should use a perfect tense - either the present or past.
"He said that since he's/he'd finished reading ...". "Since" doesn't seem so ambiguous in these tenses in this situation, as I implied above.

Using "after" simply changes the whole meaning.

 

[ostap77]

No, you should use a perfect tense - either the present or past.
"He said that since he's/he'd finished reading ...". "Since" doesn't seem so ambiguous in these tenses in this situation, as I implied above.

Using "after" simply changes the whole meaning.

Getting back to using "since" in the meaning of "because".

"Have you seen John?"

"I haven't seen him in a while since he's been in Atlanta."

 

[Raymott]

Getting back to using "since" in the meaning of "because".

"Have you seen John?"

"I haven't seen him in a while since he's been in Atlanta."

I wrote:
"Since" doesn't seem so ambiguous in these tenses in this situation, as I implied above." All of these phrases contribute to the meaning of this sentence.

I didn't write:
"You can't possibly write an ambiguous sentence with "since" using the present perfect tense" - which I think is your point. You obviously can.

 

[shoaib 1]

You mean 'which started in the past [STRIKE]tense[/STRIKE]'. With all due respect, what you say is utter nonsense. With you as an English teacher, teaching must be a case of the blind leading the blind, sorry. You mix time and tense, which is bad news for your students.

Thanks a lot for your criticism. A teacher is not always perfect especially the one who is teachig English in a non-English environment.There are certain nuances which,sometimes, confuse.I shouldn't have posted the reply without making clarity.

 

[euncu]

DELETED BY ME FOR IT HAD NO HELPFUL INFORMATION TO THE DISCUSSION.

 

[ostap77]

I wrote:
"Since" doesn't seem so ambiguous in these tenses in this situation, as I implied above." All of these phrases contribute to the meaning of this sentence.

I didn't write:
"You can't possibly write an ambiguous sentence with "since" using the present perfect tense" - which I think is your point. You obviously can.

Sorry about that!

 

[e2e4]

/A learner/

I don't think I'll fall in love with these original poster's sentences.:roll:

1)"He said that after he's read this book, he will give it to you."

OR

2)"He said that after he had read/read this book, he would give it to you."

OR

3)He said that having read this book, he will give it to you."

He told me that he'll give you the book after he's read it.

He told me that he would have given you the book if he had read it. (He didn't finish his reading. He couldn't have given the book to you.)

"Having read" is the perfect participle.I rather wouldn't use it as the condition for a future action