baker's dozen

[Verona_82]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the phrase 'baker's dozen' has any negative feeling that is associated with the number 13. "Devil's dozen', which is a synonym, surely has (judging by the first word), but Wikipedia redirects me to the 'baker's dozen' article. The phrase looks pretty 'innocent'. :roll:

Thank you.

 

[bhaisahab]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the phrase 'baker's dozen' has any negative feeling that is associated with number 13. "Devil's dozen', which is a synonym, surely has (judging by the first word), but Wikipedia redirects me to the 'baker's dozen' article. The phrase looks pretty 'innocent'. :roll:

Thank you.

I've never thought of it having any negative connotations. I had never heard of "devil's dozen".

 

[Barb_D]

I have never heard of a devil's dozen either.

A baker's dozen is a common enough expression. Since it's usually used for rolls or muffins or cupcakes or bagels, what could be negative about that? ;-)

 

[Verona_82]

It
BBC - h2g2 - Friday the 13th - Unlucky for Some?

The second article says a baker's dozen was lucky in itself 'as you got an extra bun'.
I'm being curious because in my language we have only one expression to talk about the number 13, which has negative connotations and is believed to bring bad luck.

 

[freezeframe]

In my experience very few people here have any kind of real superstition about the number 13. That said, most buildings don't have 13th floor. But if the 13th falls on a Friday, it's more of a joke than a real concern. :-D

There are some people with triskaidekaphobia -- fear of the number 13.

It's also common here in some newer buildings to not have 4th floor because of a large number of Asian immigrants. This is apparently a "bad number" in some Asian countries.

 

[TheParser]

In my experience very few people here have any kind of real superstition about the number 13. That said, most buildings don't have 13th floor. But if the 13th falls on a Friday, it's more of a joke than a real concern. :-D

There are some people with triskaidekaphobia -- fear of the number 13.

It's also common here in some newer buildings to not have 4th floor because of a large number of Asian immigrants. This is apparently a "bad number" in some Asian countries.

***** A NON-TEACHER's COMMENT *****


(1) Yes, some Asians do not like the number 4.

(2) For example, in Mandarin Chinese, the character for the

word "four" and the character for the word "death" have the

same sound.


Respectfully yours,


James

 

[SoothingDave]

I have never heard of a devil's dozen either.

A baker's dozen is a common enough expression. Since it's usually used for rolls or muffins or cupcakes or bagels, what could be negative about that? ;-)

I see no downside to a free donut. :-D

 

[freezeframe]

I see no downside to a free donut. :-D

Well, you might have to spend money on a new pair of pants.

 

[curates-egg]

A baker's dozen is a common enough expression.

In my experience of British English, "a baker's dozen" is rarely used outside school exercises. We learn it at school - and then forget it.

 

[Tdol]

(1) Yes, some Asians do not like the number 4.

(2) For example, in Mandarin Chinese, the character for the

word "four" and the character for the word "death" have the

same sound.

I don't know how common it is, but I stayed in a hotel that didn't have a fourth floor- it jumped from third to fifth.

 

[Barb_D]

In my experience of British English, "a baker's dozen" is rarely used outside school exercises. We learn it at school - and then forget it.

Perhaps it is more common on this side of the Atlantic then.

 

[konungursvia]

In my experience very few people here have any kind of real superstition about the number 13. That said, most buildings don't have 13th floor. But if the 13th falls on a Friday, it's more of a joke than a real concern. :-D

There are some people with triskaidekaphobia -- fear of the number 13.

It's also common here in some newer buildings to not have 4th floor because of a large number of Asian immigrants. This is apparently a "bad number" in some Asian countries.

I have never seen any old buildings in Hong Kong with a 4th floor either. Or 14, or 24, 34.... it's because the pronunciation of 4 is the same as, or nearly identical, to the word 'death' in most languages there.

 

[freezeframe]

I have never seen any old buildings in Hong Kong with a 4th floor either. Or 14, or 24, 34.... it's because the pronunciation of 4 is the same as, or nearly identical, to the word 'death' in most languages there.

Some of the new condo buildings here have no 4 in unit numbers or floor numbers either.
It's curious about the pronunciation. I wonder how something like that happens.

 

[konungursvia]

Just homophones, like two and too. "Sei" and "Sz" are the northern and southern Chinese words for 4, and have the same sounds as "death".

 

[BobK]

I have long understood - but I'm surprised nobody has found it on the web yet, so maybe it's fictional [not that the Internet isn't full of that stuff;-)] - that the notion of a baker's dozen derived from a tradition among bakers to give customers an extra roll to make sure that the resulting 'dozen' weighed more than an Imperial pound. But I seldom hear it in real life (and what's more, flowers come in tens now, which I feel should be called 'dizens' [derived from dixaine], which sadly they aren't;-)).

b

 

[SoothingDave]

I think the custom has pretty much died off. If you go to a chain donut shop, they sure aren't giving you anything for "free."

I know the internet will tell you it was derived from an English law that had harsh penalties for bakers who shorted their customers. Whether that's true or not is another question.

The only place I see it employed is when I buy sweet corn from a farmer. They normally give you 13 for a dozen. Sometimes even 14, if the ears are small.

 

[konungursvia]

Regarding the baker's dozen, I always thought it was on the production side, meaning to end up with 12 perfect danishes, you'd make 13, just in case.

 

[freezeframe]

Regarding the baker's dozen, I always thought it was on the production side, meaning to end up with 12 perfect danishes, you'd make 13, just in case.

Especially since the proof of the perfect danish is in the eating. You eat the 13th one. :-D

 

[Verona_82]

I have long understood - but I'm surprised nobody has found it on the web yet, so maybe it's fictional [not that the Internet isn't full of that stuff;-)] - that the notion of a baker's dozen derived from a tradition among bakers to give customers an extra roll to make sure that the resulting 'dozen' weighed more than an Imperial pound.

b

I did read about it, but I was so preoccupied with finding information about the possible negative connotations of the phrase that I didn't pay much attention to the origin.
According to another version, arranging 13 items of bread like cookies and biscuits on the baking tray allows optimal uniformity in baking. A six-cornered arrangement allowed better heat distribution in a batch of bread baked. Further, the extra item compensates for any burnt, half-baked or poor quality bread after the baking process.
That IS really interesting

 

[AlexAD]

I saw a man doing the crossword puzzle, while I was watching the 'London Boulevard' film, who asked out loud 'How many is in the baker's dozen?'.
I thought then about so called devil's dozen as it's widely spread among Russian-speaking people. But... as we may see, it was a myth.