Before/After + Past Perfect

[Volcano1985]

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong had stepped on the Moon.

What I know is we use past perfect after after, so shouldn't have it been like that:

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it had started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong stepped on the Moon.

 

[LQZ]

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong had stepped on the Moon.

What I know is we use past perfect after after, so shouldn't have it been like that:

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it had started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong stepped on the Moon.

I would say: NASA lauched GP-B on 20 Aprial, but it started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong stepped on the Moon.

Hope natives are coming soon.

 

[freezeframe]

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong had stepped on the Moon.

What I know is we use past perfect after after, so shouldn't have it been like that:

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it had started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong stepped on the Moon.

In my interpretation, the past perfect shows that the event is completed in the past and has no relation to the other two verbs.

The other verb, started, is related to launched.

 

[TheParser]

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong had stepped on the Moon.

What I know is we use past perfect after after, so shouldn't have it been like that:

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it had started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong stepped on the Moon.

***** A NON-TEACHER's COMMENT *****


(1) I could not sleep last night because I was thinking about your

question.

(2) Could you tell us the publication that printed this sentence?

(Some publications have a reputation for "excellent" English.)

(3) I have been studying LQZ's and Freezeframe's answers very

carefully and have learned a lot from them.

(4) PLEASE: could other members also contribute their thoughts???

(I really want to get some sleep tonight.)


Respectfully yours,


James

P.S. Thanks for your question. I now realize how little of the past

perfect I understand. It is good to be humbled.

 

[LQZ]

Hi, all,

I am back to expand my explanation.

[STRIKE]Nasa[/STRIKE] NASA launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it had started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong (had) stepped on the Moon.

1 All letters of NASA should be capitalized.
2 "Had started" indicates that the action of funding was completed (finished or perfected) at some point in 1963, which makes no sense at all.
3 Either "had stepped" or "stepped" is fine. I've come across many sentences using the past perfect or the past tense after an "after". But I would say the past tense is more commonly used.


Note: I am neither an English teacher nor a native. So if I am wrong, please correct me. Thanks.

 

[curates-egg]

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong had stepped on the Moon.

What I know is we use past perfect after after, so shouldn't have it been like that:

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it had started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong stepped on the Moon.

=Not a Teacher=

Your version is more logical, but many native speakers would happily say, "NASA lauched GP-B on 20 April, but it started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong stepped on the Moon", as LQZ suggested originally. We do not always worry too much about the past perfect,

 

[Raymott]

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong had stepped on the Moon.

What I know is we use past perfect after after, so shouldn't have it been like that:

Nasa launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, but it had started funding the mission concept in 1963, long before Neil Armstrong stepped on the Moon.

Yes, you're right. The author is apparently trying to place Neil Armstrong before 2004, and making a mess of it.
Neil Armstrong had stepped on the Moon long before NASA launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, and the GP-B mission concept had been funded long before that.
Your sentence is a proper correction.

 

[freezeframe]

Yes, you're right. The author is apparently trying to place Neil Armstrong before 2004, and making a mess of it.
Neil Armstrong had stepped on the Moon long before NASA launched GP-B on 20 April, 2004, and the GP-B mission concept had been funded long before that.
Your sentence is a proper correction.

But your version changes the logical connection between the elements. :-?

 

[Raymott]

But your version changes the logical connection between the elements. :-?

Perhaps, but there is no logically correct version of something that is illogical. "A happened long before B had happened" is illogical, even though one can guess the probable intended meaning.
As I said, the OP's sentence is a correct version of the author's probable intent.

 

[Volcano1985]

BBC News - Gravity Probe B confirms Einstein effects

Thanks all for contributing, I'm sometimes not sure for the sentences on BBC whether they are gramatically correct, BBC and mistake with English :roll: shouldn't be.That's why I need to ask here, thanks again.

 

[TheParser]

BBC News - Gravity Probe B confirms Einstein effects

Thanks all for contributing, I'm sometimes not sure for the sentences on BBC whether they are gramatically correct, BBC and mistake with English :roll: shouldn't be.That's why I need to ask here, thanks again.

***** A NON-TEACHER's COMMENT *****


(1) Congratulations, Volcano. It seems that your understanding

of the past perfect is better than that of Auntie's.

(a) I hear that the British people used to use "Auntie"

as an affectionate name for the British Broadcasting

Corporation. (Auntie Beeb)

(2) I can now get some sleep tonight. Thanks again for

teaching me about the proper use of the past perfect.


Respectfully yours,


James

 

[cubezero3]

Hello, there.

Several months ago, I asked a similar question regarding a sentence in which the simple past and past perfect tenses are not used in the ordinary order.

This is the sentence:

The daily exercises lasted only eleven minutes and I proposed to do them early in the morning before anyone had got up.

Lesson 50 New Year resolutions, New Concept English Book 3

In that thread, Parser, who is always very patient and kind, quotes as follows:

As an ordinary speaker of English, I have found extremely useful this explanation by Mr. Walter Kay Smart in his excellent English Review Grammar: Sometimes the past perfect is used in a subordinate clause beginning with "before" ... to indicate an action which should have preceded the action expressed in the main clause, but did not actually do so:He gave his decision BEFORE he had studied all the data.

Probably everybody knows that Neil Armstrong did step on the moon. It's quite clear the use of the past perfect in the OP's sentence is not a case of the above quotation.

However, the above quotation states that it's possible to use the past perfect in the above way. Could it be possible that the Big British Castle, in this case, is right in its choice of tenses?

Many thanks

Richard