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before/after/when + Ving

sitifan

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https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/before-after-when-ving.4020977/#post-20634317
1. They earned 50,000 dollars before paying taxes.
2. They earned $30,000 after paying taxes.
3. For your own safety, you must follow the rules when driving.
Which part of speech are "before, after, and when" in the above sentences, conjunction or preposition?
A native speaker replies, "They are prepositions. That's why they are followed by the -ing verb form."
https://www.onelook.com/?w=when&ls=a
However, according to the dictionaries I have consulted, "when" cannot be used as a preposition.
 

5jj

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There is little general agreement these days as to what words are prepositions.
 

jutfrank

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I'm guessing a grammarian would class all three as conjunctions.
 

5jj

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Some would have them as prepositions.
 
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sitifan

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I'd go for conjunctions, but the Cambridge Grammar of The English Language is one source that, apparently, allows for when to be a preposition.
The following is quoted from the link you provided:
'“When” isn’t a preposition, but that’s not because it’s a conjunction. In fact, there are a few words in English that have the properties of both a preposition and a conjunction, depending on how they’re used.'
 

sitifan

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Is "when" used as a preposition?
“When” is not a preposition. As a result, “when” cannot be used as a preposition. Actually, “when” is an adverbial conjunction which introduces or initiates an adverbial clause of time. It is also an interrogative adverb of time. Additionally, “when” can be used as a “hidden “relative pronoun heading an adjectival clause. As it is, in order to get a clear perspective of the two different usages of “when,” pay careful attention to the following illustrative examples.
“WHEN” AS AN ADVERBIAL CONJUNCTION.
EXAMPLES:
When I went to work yesterday, I met an old friend. Note here that whereas the subordinate clause “when I went to work yesterday” is an adverbial clause of “time,” the main clause is “I met an old friend.” Together these two clauses form a complex sentence. In fact, a complex sentence is made up of, at least, two clauses: an independent or main clause and a subordinate or dependent clause.
When I came home from work, I went straight to bed. Note here that two clauses of this complex sentence are: “when I came home from work” (adverbial clause of time) and “I went straight to bed” (main or independent clause).
“WHEN” USED AS AN INTERROGATIVE ADVERB.
When did you return from your trip? Note here that “when” means “at what time.”
When did your brother complete his college education? Note here that “when” means “at what time.”
“WHEN” USED AS A RELATIVE PRONOUN. (In which).
I often reflect on the time when I was a student. Note here that the main clause is “I often reflect on the time” and the subordinate (adjectival) clause is “when I was in school.” Together, these two clauses form a complex sentence. Note here, again, that the adjectival clause “when I was a student” modifies the noun “time.” Actually, the point or question here is “which time?” Of course, the time “in which” I was a student.
Moreover, the same premise applies to the adverb where in that “where” also functions as a relative pronoun. Look at the following examples.
“WHERE” USED AS A RELATIVE PRONOUN. (In which).
I vividly remember the house where I lived as a boy. Note here that whereas “I vividly remember the house” is the main of independent clause, “where I lived as a boy” is the subordinate (adjectival ) clause modifying the noun “place.” Actually, the point or question here is “which house.” Of course, the house “in which” I lived.
I vividly remember the park where I used to play. Which park? Of course the park “in which” I used to play. Note here that the adjectival clause “where I used to play” modifies the noun “park.”
In sum, we see that that “when” is used as an adverbial conjunction, an interrogative adverb, and a (hidden) relative pronoun. It is not a preposition.
 
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5jj

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“When” is not a preposition. As a result, “when” cannot be used as a preposition
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In sum, we see that that “when” is used as an adverbial conjunction, an interrogative adverb, and a (hidden) relative pronoun. It is not a preposition.
That's one opinion.

Huddleston and Pullum include 'when' in their list of prepositions: The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language (2002.615).
 

probus

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@sitifan wrote: “When” is not a preposition. As a result, “when” cannot be used as a preposition.

That is what used to be called begging the question. It is a logical fallacy in the same vein as: the emperor is naked because he isn't wearing any clothes.
 

Skrej

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@sitifan wrote: “When” is not a preposition. As a result, “when” cannot be used as a preposition.

That is what used to be called begging the question. It is a logical fallacy in the same vein as: the emperor is naked because he isn't wearing any clothes.

I'm just this week covering propaganda and logical fallacies in the unit on critical thinking for my reading skills class. We discuss six major types of propaganda and six major logical fallacies (of course there are more than six of each).

This is also known as 'circular reasoning'. It falls into a group of logical fallacies that simply avoid the issue at hand.

I always enjoy this unit, mostly because I enjoy the students' reactions when they start to realize how widespread propaganda is in almost everything. I guess it's the shock of finding out other people are secretly trying to influence the way you think and act, along with possibly feeding you misinformation that finally gets a reaction out of them.

I'll admit to a bit of schadenfreude when I see them realize they can't automatically trust everything they see or hear.
 

probus

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Regarding propaganda and disinformation I imagine the current lawsuit by Dominion Voting Systems against Fox News is providing plenty of current affairs material for your students to consider and discuss. 😀
 
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