coarse language

[GeneD]

I realise that the following question might be to some extent provocative, and I'm welcoming you to ignore it if it'll be.

This question dawned on me about an hour ago, and find it really interesting (and pretty entertaining, to tell you the truth). Do you teachers use coarse language in your everyday life? Well, I don't think that teachers are angels and they don't ever swear. "Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto" the old proverb goes, and I think it's natural for people to swear occasionally. The question is, how often (if ever) you swear. On a daily, hourly basis, every five minutes? Never?

The question reminds me of another one being asked on this forum earlier. (It was about contraction usage in written and spoken English (I've, he's, would've, etc). I think I'll fail to find it now.) Then I asked if you shorten fully written words when reading them as I sometimes do. (I still do it 'cause I find this way pretty helpful.) And the question about the coarse language seems to have a similar problem. I've taken a look at a couple of British sitcoms and was astonished at how often such language might be used in everyday speech. I'm even beginning to think that it might not be a bad idea to translate the written language I read (in my head, of course) into real-life one using coarse language expressions as well as more moderate ones. (What an idiotic idea! :-D I like it! It sometimes can show the real meaning of what a person really thinks. At least, twice a day like a broken clock.)

Back to the question... Do you swear? If yes, ignore the question.

 

[emsr2d2]

I'm confused as to whether you want me to answer the question or not! The last line of your second paragraph says "The question is, how often (if ever) you swear. On a daily, hour basis, every five minutes? Never?" Your final sentences say "Do you swear? If yes, ignore the question."

So do you want those of us who swear to answer or not? ;-)

 

[GeneD]

Of course I do! That was only a joke.

 

[emsr2d2]

I must have missed the humour!

Yes, I swear. A lot. How often I swear in any given conversation depends on the context/topic and who I'm talking to.

 

[GeneD]

I must have missed the humour!

We are apparently on different wavelengths.

 

[GeneD]

Yes, I swear. A lot. How often I swear in any given conversation depends on the context/topic and who I'm talking to.

So the idea to translate written language into spoken (often swearing) one is not that idiotic? Well, it is, but I like it anyway.

 

[Skrej]

I do swear, but there generally tends to be a reason for it - i.e. a reaction to something. I'm not one of those people who swears every other word for no apparent reason.

I also alter my propensity to swear fairly well (although I'm sure I could improve) given the situation I'm in. For example, I used to work a lot with younger children, so I'd consciously try to avoid swearing around them. I also avoid it while teaching. The problem is that it's a habit, and habits are difficult to control. It also depends upon the social circle I'm in at a given moment.

I'm not offended by others swearing if there's a reason (with allowances for circumstance as per above), but I do find people who interject profanity into every other word for no apparent reason as annoying. If it's not purposely expressing an emotion, then it just seems excessive. It can also come across as lacking in eloquence.

Grammatically, profanity is an intensifier or an interjection, so an excess of it starts to sound almost superficial it there's not a really 'valid' reason to use it. I suppose that validity is individually subjective, of course.

 

[GeneD]

Speaking for myself, I've considered (for a long time) that such language is something that is better to get rid of. I caught a lot of it in my youth and it breaks out occasionally exactly as in your, Skrej, reply, as an intensifier. I think I understand you perfectly.

But just to make sure. You wouldn't without a need say "F*ck off!" instead of "No way!", right? That's one of those expressions that surprised me when watching the sitcoms I mentioned in post 1.

 

[emsr2d2]

You'll only hear that if you're watching TV shows that are broadcast after 9pm. As far as I know, the "watershed" still precludes that kind of language from being broadcast before that time.

I've certainly used "F*ck off!!!" instead of "No way!" or "You're kidding!" before now. I would have to be more than a little surprised in order to use it but I've been more than a little surprised quite a lot in my life.

To be honest, my swearing also depends on my mood. If I'm in quite a good mood, I might get to work and say to a colleague "There was some idiot on my bus this morning playing music really loudly without headphones!" If I'm not in such a great mood (perhaps as a result of said music), I might say "There was some f*cking t*sser on my bus this morning playing really f*cking loud music without headphones. What a tw*t!"

 

[GoesStation]

Is "t*sser" vulgar? I thought it was casual.

 

[GeneD]

Which letters are hidden in "t*sser"? I don't know this word.

 

[emsr2d2]

The letter "o" has been asterisked. See here.

 

[jutfrank]

Is "t*sser" vulgar? I thought it was casual.

In BrE, yes, very. For me, as much as the 'w' word.

 

[jutfrank]

I can't remember in which publication I recently read an article citing a study on profane language, one of whose conclusions was that swearing is corellated with proficiency. That is, people who are expert users of English are more likely to swear. There's evidence that swearers also tend to be more emotionally balanced, if I remember rightly.

 

[GeneD]

I can't remember in which publication I recently read an article citing a study on profane language, one of whose conclusions was that swearing is corellated with proficiency.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with this statement. It may be true for those learning a second or third language, but when it comes to native speakers, I see the picture that's quite the opposite. My mother tongue is Russian, and I can more or less confidently speak only about what I see in the reality of the Russian language. And the reality is that those who are proficient in swearing are mostly not proficient in their own language in general. There might be some exceptions, but I can't remember any, frankly.

That is, people who are expert users of English are more likely to swear.

Maybe those who wrote the article or did the research meant esl students? If so, it's definitely true provided they study language in a "study", not in the streets. Swearing isn't taught in schools and colleges. But the "street learners" I see (that is, the immigrants who gain the languge skills "outdoors") show very descent proficiency in swearing. Just like the native speakers I talked about a little above.

Maybe the classical literature would be a good example. What I see is that the more a person (i.e. an author) tries to improve their language skills the less swearing they use. I can remember one or two examples of the opposite though, but they are rather an exception to the "rule".

There's evidence that swearers also tend to be more emotionally balanced, if I remember rightly.

I can't fully agree with this either, I'm afraid. Swearing does help to "let the steam off" (if it's possible to say so), but... In my opinion, the language we use tunes us up. Let's take the mentioned classical literature. It seems to have a positive tuning effect on people. Habitual swearing, on the contrary, give us the habitual mode of thinking, and this way is pretty agressive. And the agression is either slightly motivated or unmotivated at all in most cases. Instead of giving us the opportunity to think over a problem that is bothering us, the habit to swear just lets the steam off and nothing more. Maybe even worse than "nothing more". I would say it "perverts" our way of thinking. When angry, we often don't see things as they are (i.e. objectively). I hope Ems will forgive me if I give her example here. Is that person listening to music in the public transport really a t*sser? Literally. There is obviously no reason for us to assume that they are purely from the fact they were listening to the music on the bus. This is an example of, in my opining, wrong usage of the profane language, and, I must regretfully confess, I also sometimes use it this way and sincerily hope to get rid of such "perverted" usage in the future. I'm an optimist, aren't I? But interestingly, there are cases where the profane language is semantically justified. For instance, you sincerily despise people who masturbate and call them "t*sser". Well, in this case the psychotherapeutic effect would do more good than harm, I believe.

 

[jutfrank]

What I see is that the more a person (i.e. an author) tries to improve their language skills the less swearing they use. I can remember one or two examples of the opposite though, but they are rather an exception to the "rule".

I would make a distinction between creative swearers and mere habitual swearers, who might just repeat the same simple word over and over. Surely you agree at least that highly competent language users are better able to use language creatively. Swearing is then just another means of creative expression, greatly enriching a person's diction and repertoire of expression.

I can't speak for Russian, unfortunately, but I know that opportunities to swear in English come so freely and frequently that I'm not surprised that expert users might find it more irresistable than most.

 

[Tdol]

In BrE, yes, very. For me, as much as the 'w' word.

Neither of those strike me as very vulgar.

 

[emsr2d2]

For me, "w*nker" classes as real swearing but "t*sser" is just a bit rude. I almost didn't asterisk it but as we have users as young as 14 here, I thought it prudent to do so.

 

[jutfrank]

Neither of those strike me as very vulgar.

For me, "w*nker" classes as real swearing but "t*sser" is just a bit rude. I almost didn't asterisk it but as we have users as young as 14 here, I thought it prudent to do so.

Interesting. I do think that things have changed as far as t*sser goes over the past twenty or so years. It feels far more offensive to me now than it did it in the past, where w*nker is less so. But of course it depends hugely on context, and on delivery.

The force that the use of a word carries is determined by a whole set of different factors. Suffice to say that some words carry more force in certain groups than in others.

 

[TheParser]

NOT A TEACHER

Hello, Gene D.:

I had 40 years' experience dealing with secondary students, so I guess that I am allowed to respond to your question.

No, I seldom use coarse language in my everyday language. Only when I get really angry. Being a very timid person, however, I usually suppress my anger.

In dealing with those students, I remember using coarse language only once: In the 1960s, I told a class to shut their "d*mn*d" mouths.

They reported me to my superior, who admonished me to not use that adjective again.

In the United States, the word "d*mn*d" is still considered coarse by many people.