could / be able to

[pinkie9]

[FONT=&#12513]Hello. Please assume that some teachers from all over Japan were supposed to gather in Tokyo to hold a meeting yesterday, but it was impossible due to the bad weather, which means the airplanes to Tokyo couldn't fly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#12513]If I have to describe this situation using the passive voice (with "the meeting" as the subject)...[/FONT]

[FONT=&#12513]1. The meeting could not be held.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#12513]2. The meeting was not be able to be held.[/FONT]

[FONT=&#12513]Could anyone tell me if they are both correct?

[/FONT][FONT=&#12513]With regard to "could" and "be able to" when expressing the past, I understand the following:[/FONT]
[FONT=&#12513]Native speakers use "could" for general ability.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#12513]- My granma could speak 4 languages.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#12513]But if you are talking about what happened in a particular situation, you use was/were able to... but NOT could.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#12513]- The fire spread through the building quickly but everybody was able to escape.[/FONT]

[FONT=&#12513]But if it's negative, you can use "couldn't" for general ability and also for a particular situation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#12513]- My granma could not swim.[/FONT]
[FONT=&#12513]- The fire spread through the building quickly and everybody could not escape.[/FONT]

[FONT=&#12513]But I can't find a grammar book or website that explains about a negative sentence in the passive voice. [/FONT]

 

[5jj]

The subject of a passive sentence generally cannnot show the ability to have something done to them. Neither affirmative nor negative constuctions with 'be able to' followed by a passive infinitive are natural.

Incidentally, "The fire spread through the building quickly and everybody could not escape" is not natural. We would say either "... not everybody could/was able to escape" or "... nobody could/was able to escape", depending on the situation.

 

[pinkie9]

The subject of a passive sentence generally cannnot show the ability to have something done to them. Neither affirmative nor negative constuctions with 'be able to' followed by a passive infinitive are natural.

Does that mean 1 is incorrect and 2 is correct? :?:

Incidentally, "The fire spread through the building quickly and everybody could not escape" is not natural. We would say either "... not everybody could/was able to escape" or "... nobody could/was able to escape", depending on the situation.

Thank you for pointing that out!

 

[bhaisahab]

Does that mean 1 is incorrect and 2 is correct? :?:




Thank you for pointing that out!

1 is correct, 2 is incorrect.

 

[pinkie9]

1 is correct, 2 is incorrect.

Thank you so much!

But I'm still having difficulty understanding this.

The subject of a passive sentence generally cannnot show the ability to have something done to them. Neither affirmative nor negative constuctions with 'be able to' followed by a passive infinitive are natural.

Could anyone give me examples please?

 

[5jj]

But I'm still having difficulty understanding this.

Could anyone give me examples please?

We were (not) able to hold the meeting.
[STRIKE]The meeting was (not) able to be held[/STRIKE].

 

[emsr2d2]

Please note the correct spelling of "grandma" and "grandmother". It can be shortened to "gran/Gran/granny/Granny" but the "d" is retained in "grandma".

 

[pinkie9]

Thank you.

Neither affirmative nor negative constuctions with 'be able to' followed by a passive infinitive are natural.

We were (not) able to hold the meeting.
[STRIKE]The meeting was (not) able to be held[/STRIKE].

What do you mean by "passive infinitive" in this case?
The "hold" after "be able to" in your 1st example looks like just an infinitive to me.

 

[5jj]

0What do you mean by "passive infinitive" in this case?
The "hold" after "be able to" in your 1st example looks like just an infinitive to me.

It is just an infinitive, active, and it's acceptable. 'To be held', passive, is not acceptable.

 

[pinkie9]

It is just an infinitive, active, and it's acceptable. 'To be held', passive, is not acceptable.

But you wrote "...passive infinitive are natural".
That's where I'm confused.

 

[bhaisahab]

But you wrote "...passive infinitive are natural".
That's where I'm confused.

This is what 5jj wrote: "Neither affirmative nor negative constructions with 'be able to' followed by a passive infinitive are natural."

​

 

[emsr2d2]

But you wrote "...passive infinitive are natural".
That's where I'm confused.

No. 5jj wrote "Neither affirmative nor negative constuctions with 'be able to' followed by a passive infinitive are natural."

Look at the whole sentence. It begins with "Neither ..." and ends with "... are natural".

 

[charliedeut]

But you wrote "...passive infinitive are natural".
That's where I'm confused.

This is exactly what he said:

Neither affirmative nor negative constuctions with 'be able to' followed by a passive infinitive are natural.

So: Affirmative constructions with "be able to" + passive infinitive::cross:
Negative constructions with "be able to" + passive infinitive::cross:

That's what he meant. Maybe this way, more graphic, to explain it, is of more use to you?

 

[pinkie9]

I see. I finally understood!
Thank you very much for being patient for teaching me, everyone. I appreciate that.