Except and except for

[Rachel Adams]

I was studying the difference between "except" and "except for" and noticed that in different sources they use them interchangeably in similar examples.

1. "Everyone was tired except for John."

2. "Everyone was ready except John."

3. "Except for Louisa, who away in Berlin this weekend, we'll all be at the party."

4. "We all went except Tom."

https://academic.oup.com/eltj/article-abstract/XXXV/3/260/545193?redirectedFrom=PDF

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/except-or-except-for

If "except for" is used when what is excluded is different from what is included then why don't they use "for" in sentences #2 and #4?

 

[Morgan]

Re: Except and exept for

NOT A TEACHER and NOT A NATIVE SPEAKER
From Cambridge Dictionary: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/except-or-except-for

We often use 'except' and 'except for' as prepositions to mean ‘not including’ or ‘excluding’. They are followed by a noun or noun phrase or a wh-clause. Both 'except' and 'except for' are correct after a noun:

I like all fruit except (for) oranges. (excluding oranges)
​

Except for Louisa, who’s away in Berlin this weekend, we’ll all be at the party.
​

She likes going to most sports events, except cricket matches.
​

'Except' can also be used as a conjunction. We don’t use 'except for' in this way:

The brothers are very alike, except (that) Mark is slightly taller than Kevin.

If I understood that correctly, you can put 'for' in both #2 and #4. Nothing would change.
​

 

[Rachel Adams]

Re: Except and exept for

NOT A TEACHER and NOT A NATIVE SPEAKER
From Cambridge Dictionary: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/except-or-except-for

We often use 'except' and 'except for' as prepositions to mean ‘not including’ or ‘excluding’. They are followed by a noun or noun phrase or a wh-clause. Both 'except' and 'except for' are correct after a noun:

I like all fruit except (for) oranges. (excluding oranges)
​

Except for Louisa, who’s away in Berlin this weekend, we’ll all be at the party.
​

She likes going to most sports events, except cricket matches.
​

'Except' can also be used as a conjunction. We don’t use 'except for' in this way:

The brothers are very alike, except (that) Mark is slightly taller than Kevin.

If I understood that correctly, you can put 'for' in both #2 and #4. Nothing would change.
​

I read this and provided the link. I need a teacher's explanation.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Re: Except and exept for

NOT A TEACHER and NOT A NATIVE SPEAKER
From Cambridge Dictionary: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/except-or-except-for

We often use 'except' and 'except for' as prepositions to mean ‘not including’ or ‘excluding’. They are followed by a noun or noun phrase or a wh-clause. Both 'except' and 'except for' are correct after a noun:

I like all fruit except (for) oranges. (excluding oranges)
​

Except for Louisa, who’s away in Berlin this weekend, we’ll all be at the party.
​

She likes going to most sports events, except cricket matches.
​

'Except' can also be used as a conjunction. We don’t use 'except for' in this way:

The brothers are very alike, except (that) Mark is slightly taller than Kevin.

If I understood that correctly, you can put 'for' in both #2 and #4. Nothing would change.
​

But in #4 it is required. Perhaps it's according to this definition: "If "except for" is used when what is excluded is different from what is included." As in Louisa is different by not being with the group.