[Grammar] "for improving" vs "to improve"

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Mannkavi

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I know, I need to work hard for improving my English.
I know, I need to work hard to improve my English.
I guess both sentences are correct.

My question is, are "for improving" and "to improve" interchangeable? Please help. I'm really confused.
Thank you.
 

emsr2d2

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I know, I need to work hard for improving my English. X
I know, I need to work hard to improve my English. :tick:
I guess both sentences are correct.

My question is, are "for improving" and "to improve" interchangeable? Please help. I'm really confused.
Thank you.

There might be some contexts in which they're interchangeable but not in your example. Your first sentence is not correct.
 

JohnParis

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My question is, are "for improving" and "to improve" interchangeable?

No, they are not interchangeable as you have used them here.
"
I know, I need to work hard to improve my English" is the only option that is correct, and the simple present is the best tense for this type of sentence.
 

emsr2d2

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For improving your English, there's nothing better than practice.
 

Mannkavi

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There might be some contexts in which they're interchangeable but not in your example. Your first sentence is not correct.
Thanks emsr2d2.
Is there any rule for this interchangeability?
Can you give one or two example where they're interchangeable.
 

Mannkavi

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Thanks emsr2d2.
Is there any rule for this interchangeability?
Can you give one or two example where they're interchangeable.
Sometime it's really become confusing.

I want to improve my english. I need someone for improving my english.
I think, now it is easier for you to understand my problem.
Please help!
 

Mannkavi

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My question is, are "for improving" and "to improve" interchangeable?

No, they are not interchangeable as you have used them here.
"
I know, I need to work hard to improve my English" is the only option that is correct, and the simple present is the best tense for this type of sentence.
Please tell me when we use "for verb+ing" and "to verb" ?
 

emsr2d2

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Typing the same question three times in a row isn't going to make us answer any faster. The opposite, in fact.
 

shannico

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For improving your English, there's nothing better than practice.

It depends on what you want to emphasize really.

if you use for+ing you are laying emphasis on the function that an object may have.

e.g. I need a knife for cutting bread. (it means you need a special knife which serves that purpose or has that function).

If you use the infinitive (TO+verb) the emphasis is laid on the purpose of an action.

I need a knife to cut the bread (it is more focussed on the fact that unless you have a knife, you won't be able to cut the bread)

I hope it helps.
 

5jj

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if you use for+ing you are laying emphasis on the function that an object may have.
If you use the infinitive (TO+verb) the emphasis is laid on the purpose of an action.
I don't feel that we necessarily make that distinction.
 
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5jj

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Your explanation was clear enough. I simply said that I feel we don't necessarily make that distinction.

The link you provided appears to agree.
 

shannico

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Agree with what you maintain or with my explanation?
By saying that you don't feel a native speaker would make that distinction, you might encourage the idea that the two are absolutely interchangeable.
Genuinely I think it's good for a learner to know that for+ing may occur when talking about the function of an object and the same doesn't occur when talking about an action driven by an agenda.
 

5jj

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Agree with what you maintain or with my explanation?
With what I said.
By saying that you don't feel a native speaker would make that distinction, you might encourage the idea that the two are absolutely interchangeable.
I said that they we don't necessarily make that distinction.
Genuinely I think it's good for a learner to know that for+ing may occur when talking about the function of an object and the same doesn't occur when talking about an action driven by an agenda.
Fine, but originally you did not use the word 'may'.
 

shannico

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Fair enough. I mightn't have used may because I was focussing on why the two constructs are different rather than on why they may be interchangeable.
 

hoangkha

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According to PEU by Micheal Swan
Infinitive clauses of purpose
We often use an infinitive to talk about a person's purpose- why he/she does someting.
- He went abroad to forget.
- I am going to Austria to learn German.

The purposes of things :-ing forms and infinitive.
For can be used before the -ing form of a verb to express the purpose of a thing- what it is used for.
-An altimeter is used for measuring height above sea level.
When the clause has a person as subject, it is more common to use an infinitive to express the purpose of a thing.
- We use altimeters to measure height above sea level.
 

5jj

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Swan's ideas are useful, but note the words'often', 'can' and 'more common'.

Like the ideas in the link provided by shannico, they give good guidance. I just do not want learners to go away with the idea that they are 'absolute rules'.
 

Mannkavi

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Typing the same question three times in a row isn't going to make us answer any faster. The opposite, in fact.
@emsr2d2
Sorry for the inconvenience. But I didn't mean that. In first question I just asked the first thing that came in my mind after reading the replies. Then I thought to make my question more clear so i posted second question. After some time I realised I should ask the question in general form as you said, "I know, I need to work hard for improving my English" is incorrect, so I posted it in general form.
 

Mannkavi

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I don't feel that we necessarily make that distinction.
Ok. Is that mean we can use "to verb" in place of "for verb+ing" ?
 
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