for or to?

[hanky]

Hi,
could you please tell me which one is better?

We discuss an application of the X method to the Y model.
We discuss an application of the X method for the Y model.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Offroad]

This one sounds good to me:

We have discussed an application of the X method for the Y model.

 

[chester_100]

Apply something to something is an expression.

 

[sarat_106]

Apply something to something is an expression.

Yes, 'to' here indicates direction not purpose. In the OP, the first prepositional phrase-- of the X method --modifies the noun application; the second—to/for the Y model --modifies the verb discussed. The two phrases provide information that helps us to understand the sentence. You can not discuss something to something (We discuss an application to the Y model)is wrong, but you can discuss something for something (We discuss an application for the Y model.), is correct.

 

[hanky]

Hi, thank you all for your answers.
I'll go with "for".
Have a nice day.
H

 

[crazYgeeK]

Yes, 'to' here indicates direction not purpose. In the OP, the first prepositional phrase-- of the X method --modifies the noun application; the second—to/for the Y model --modifies the verb discussed. The two phrases provide information that helps us to understand the sentence. You can not discuss something to something (We discuss an application to the Y model)is wrong, but you can discuss something for something (We discuss an application for the Y model.), is correct.

What do you think if I suppose that there is a structure like "apply something to something" or "application of something to something", concretely in this sentence it likes "application of the X method to the Y model" or "apply the X method to the Y model"
It becomes "apply something to something". Is it a correct form ?

I think the structure of the sentence "We discuss an application of the X method to/for the Y method" is "We discuss something". And something here is concretely "an application of the X method to the Y method".

I think when using the verb "apply", we have "apply something" and when using the corresponding noun "application", we have "application of something" with no changes in meaning.
Could you explain more and clear out my doubts please?
Thank you very much !!!

 

[sarat_106]

What do you think if I suppose that there is a structure like "apply something to something" or "application of something to something", concretely in this sentence it likes "application of the X method to the Y model" or "apply the X method to the Y model"
It becomes "apply something to something". Is it a correct form ?

Yes it a correct form having idiomatic as well as literal use; as
Lit. to put something onto the surface of something. Apply the paint evenly to each surface.
Idiomatic. to use something, such as force, effort, etc., on something or in the performance of some task. An even greater effort has been applied to make sure we finish on time.
I think the structure of the sentence "We discuss an application of the X method to/for the Y method" is "We discuss something". And something here is concretely "an application of the X method to the Y method".

I think when using the verb "apply", we have "apply something" and when using the corresponding noun "application", we have "application of something" with no changes in meaning.
I think there nothing wrong with the structure but what about meaning? By using ‘to’ you apply a method to a model(mark model) as if it has a sutface where as ‘for’ indicates purpose of the discussion i.e. to examine its suitability to fit the Y model.

Could you explain more and clear out my doubts please?
Thank you very much !!!

I hope this helps.

 

[bertietheblue]

Hi,
could you please tell me which one is better?

We discuss an application of the X method to the Y model.:tick:
We discuss an application of the X method for the Y model.:cross:

Thanks a lot.

'to' is correct. You 'discuss something' [direct object]. And here, that 'something' is the noun phrase 'an application of the X method to the Y model'.

In addition (and unless the context - which I don't know - suggests otherwise), I would say 'the' application, unless there are different possible applications of the X method to the Y model, in which case I would be more likely to say 'one of the possible applications'/'a particular application' (or similar).

 

[hanky]

At first I think "to" is correct, later it seems to be "for", now I am back at where I start. :-(

 

[bertietheblue]

At first I think "to" is correct, later it seems to be "for", now I am back at where I start. :-(

Hanky

'to' is definitely correct. The poster who suggested 'for' mistakenly believed that we say 'discuss for something' in English but, in fact, we 'discuss something'.

 

[Offroad]

We discussed an application of the X method for the Y model.

I would not say:

The X method to the Y model. (this might work in a different context)

but

The X method for the Y model. (a purpose is involved, that method is for this model)

 

[Offroad]

Would you mind judging this sentence?

They have created a method to improving the performance of this model.

Many thanks.

 

[bertietheblue]

We discussed an application of the X method for the Y model.

I would not say:

The X method to the Y model. (this might work in a different context)

but

The X method for the Y model. (a purpose is involved, that method is for this model)

'to' is not dependent on 'method' but on 'application':

'the application of A to B'

A is 'the X method', which is applied to B, 'the Y model'

 

[bertietheblue]

Would you mind judging this sentence?

They have created a method to improving the performance of this model.

Many thanks.

Here, I'd say 'of' is preferable, 'for' is possible, 'to' is wrong (unless 'to improve')

 

[tungsam]

This one sounds good to me:

We have discussed an application of the X method for the Y model.

Why can't we just say that we discussed an application of the method for the Y model.

 

[bertietheblue]

Why can't we just say that we discussed an application of the method for the Y model.

We are talking about 'the X method' and not just 'method', but there is something in what you're saying. OK, I'll have to revise and say, in 99% of cases (especially here because you do apply methods to model!) the usage would be:

'discuss the application of something to something'
so: 'discuss the application of the X method to the Y model'

but, yes, I suppose the X method could be an existing element of the Y model and not something introduced by application, so:

'discuss the application of the X method for the Y model'

might just be possible but even here I'd use 'used in' (or possibly 'used for' or 'used under').

Anyway, I think I've exhausted myself on this thread so will leave it there for now.

 

[chester_100]

I agree with bertietheblue; further discussion is not necessary. But the following can make it clearer:

As I mentioned, apply + to is a correct formula.

If you change apply into a noun, its preposition will be still the same. This process is referred to as abstract noun phrase, as a result of which a verb is turned into a noun while preserving its verbal function. Of course, the abstract noun is usually followed by of and preceded by the:


the + application + of + something + to + something
The above long phrase is the direct object in the sentence:

we + discussed + [the + application + of + X method + to + Y model]

It's the most detailed explanation that I can come up with now.

Bye,