[Grammar] "had went" and "has ran away"

[bmgordon]

I have a question about southern grammar. I hope it’s ok to post it here. I was born and raised in New England and my English teachers drilled grammar into me. Five years ago I moved to the south. I keep hearing things like “I had went to school with her” or “my dog has ran away.” I’ve also seen this in written form as well. Why do they add “had” in front of “went” or “has” in front of “ran away?” I’m asking this as a serious question. Do they learn a different form of English in southern schools? I’m just trying to understand where it comes from and why they put that word there. It stops me in my tracks every time I hear it or see it in writing. Thank you. Barbara

 

[emsr2d2]

I have a question about southern American grammar. I hope it’s [STRIKE]ok[/STRIKE] OK to post it here.

I was born and raised in New England and my English teachers drilled grammar into me. Five years ago I moved to the south. I keep hearing things like “I had went to school with her” or “My dog has ran away". I’ve also seen this in written form as well. Why do they add “had” in front of “went” or “has” in front of “ran away"? I’m asking this as a serious question. Do they learn a different form of English in southern American schools? I’m just trying to understand where it comes from and why they put that word there. It stops me in my tracks every time I hear it or see it in writing.

Thank you.

Barbara

Welcome to the forum. :hi:

Being British, I can't speak knowledgeably about the education system in the southern states of the USA but I can tell you that similar errors are made by British English speakers. Sometimes the blame lies with a lack of education, and sometimes it's down to regional dialects/usage.

However, I am 99% certain that "I had went" and "has ran" are not taught in English-speaking schools anywhere in the world.

 

[jutfrank]

It's just a non-standard way of using what we call the present and past perfect tense, where the speaker uses the second form of the verb instead of the third.

The 'correct', standard grammar in your examples is I had gone to school with her and My dog has run away.

These speakers are not taught this in school. It's quite typical for people to use non-standard grammatical forms when they speak. They usually acquire this from the speech community in which they live.

 

[Rover_KE]

It's quite typical for people to use non-standard grammatical forms when they speak. They usually acquire this from the speech community in which they live.

Weren't you ever aware of comparable aberrations in New England, Barbara? We certainly have them here in Old England.

 

[jutfrank]

This particular variation is by no means unique to the south of the United States. I know people from all over the UK who use it.

 

[GoesStation]

Five years ago I moved to the south. I keep hearing things like “I had went to school with her” or “my dog has ran away.” I’ve also seen this in written form as well. Why do they add “had” in front of “went” or “has” in front of “ran away?”

You're hearing an aspect of the dialect of the region you've moved to: the use of went and ran as past participles. Many people in southwest Ohio do the same thing.

 

[bmgordon]

Thank you for all the responses. I will just have to get used to reading people's posts that their dog "has ran away." It sounds like an interesting condition to have.
Have a nice day!
Barbara

 

[bmgordon]

Welcome to the forum. :hi:

Being British, I can't speak knowledgeably about the education system in the southern states of the USA but I can tell you that similar errors are made by British English speakers. Sometimes the blame lies with a lack of education, and sometimes it's down to regional dialects/usage.

However, I am 99% certain that "I had went" and "has ran" are not taught in English-speaking schools anywhere in the world.

I see that you corrected my sentence. I just want to add that in America, or at least in New England, we were taught that the quotes go AFTER the period. Here is an explanation.


http://grammartips.homestead.com/inside.html

Cheers!
Barbara

 

[Tarheel]

I live in Charlotte, which is in the South, and I have not heard that dialect in 15 years. (We moved here in 2004.)

 

[bmgordon]

I don't ever remember reading or hearing "My dog has ran away" before I moved down here. I guess we are living in an "anything goes" society now. It sounds just as good as "My dog has runned away."

 

[GoesStation]

I don't ever remember reading or hearing "My dog has ran away" before I moved down here. I guess we are living in an "anything goes" society now. It sounds just as good as "My dog has runned away."

It has nothing to do with current social attitudes. The people who use ran as the past participle of run do so because they've heard it since childhood from the people around them. I was about to write that they'd heard it from their parents, and in many cases they have, but the person I think of first when I imagine hearing someone say My dog has ran away is a sister-in-law whose father died when she was a baby and whose mother was a very careful speaker. She grew up in a tiny town in southwest Ohio and adopted the speech patterns she heard all around her.

Despite using non-standard past participles, she's held important positions in state government for years.

 

[abaka]

There's a huge difference between saying it and writing it.

In written English, these are examples of gross illiteracy.

 

[SoothingDave]

It's not uncommon for people to say "I should have went" instead of "should have gone."

This seems to be the same idea.

 

[bubbha]

A lot of people grow up hearing "bad" grammar from family, friends and community, and end up speaking it themselves. I feel thankful to have been raised by a professor of English Literature in a university town!

 

[jutfrank]

Is it not time we stopped thinking of natural non-standard grammar as 'bad'? That seems to me an awful mistake, academically and politically.

 

[abaka]

Since I volunteer to give freely my advice on our language, I don't think it's wholly proper to shield my prescriptions with a profession of academic or politically comfortable descriptivism.

Writing is more than a record of speech. There are great differences between spoken and written communication: in function, in permanence, in the level of responsibility attached. As a result, we can and should subject the written language to a higher standard than the spoken.

 

[emsr2d2]

I would be curious to know whether the people who say "I had ran" etc would write the same thing in a formal setting, such as an exam and, if they do, whether they lose marks.

 

[abaka]

I would be curious to know whether the people who say "I had ran" etc would write the same thing in a formal setting, such as an exam and, if they do, whether they lose marks.

Would you deduct marks for "I had ran"?

 

[emsr2d2]

Would you deduct marks for "I had ran"?

Yes.

 

[jutfrank]

I would be curious to know whether the people who say "I had ran" etc would write the same thing in a formal setting, such as an exam and, if they do, whether they lose marks.

This would really depend on what the purpose of the exam was.