- He spent hours repairing the clock. - Did he repair it/succeed?

[Marika33]

Is B's reply odd here?

A: He spent hours repairing the clock last night.
B: So ... did he repair it?
A: Nope (he didn't). He decided to take it to a watch repair shop. / Yes, in the end he did (repair it).

 

[SoothingDave]

A's initial statement is odd.

If he didn't actually repair it, then A should say he spent hours trying to repair it.

 

[Piscean]

A point I made in another of your threads, Marika.

 

[Skrej]

A's initial statement is odd.

If he didn't actually repair it, then A should say he spent hours trying to repair it.

Or even 'spent hours working on the clock', or 'hours tinkering/messing/fiddling with the clock'. All of those suggest limited or questionable success.

 

[Marika33]

A's initial statement is odd.

If he didn't actually repair it, then A should say he spent hours trying to repair it.

This makes sense to me, but I think that if somebody had called "A" in the middle of the process and asked what he was doing, A would've answered, "I'm repairing the clock", not "I'm trying to repair the clock". So, it doesn't add up for me.

+ I remember asking here, in this thread if changing "training my dog" into "trying to train my dog" and if changing "painting a wall" into "trying to paint a wall" is necessary in these sentences, "I spent forty minutes training my dog to give paw", "I spent twenty minutes painting a wall in my room", and I remember getting some replies of this kind:

* Yesterday I spent forty minutes training my dog to give paw. *

There is no reason to use "try" there.

*Yesterday evening I spent twenty minutes painting a wall in my room.*

I assume you got some paint on the wall. How would "try" go in there?

So I thought that I shouldn't force "trying to repair" in my original sentence from #1.

 

[SoothingDave]

Perspectives change when an action is completed. What may have been described while happening as "repairing the clock" is not, in hindsight, "repairing the clock" if the clock never got repaired. In hindsight, it is "trying to repair."

As for the dog, it is understood that training is an ongoing process. You can say you spent an hour today training the dog and it will be understood that the dog was not fully trained in just one hour.

Finally, "trying to paint" a wall is pretty much nonsense. You either put some paint on the wall or you don't. Even if you don't finish it all in one session, you still spent time "painting."

Context matters and there are no easy rules.

 

[emsr2d2]

The main difference for me is that things like "repair" and "train" have two possible outcomes - success and failure. Painting your room is just painting your room. You either did it or you didn't. More information would be needed to know if you finished.

1. I spent twenty minutes yesterday evening painting a wall in my room. It looks great! (You finished the job.)
2. I spent twenty minutes yesterday evening painting a wall in my room. I'll have to finish it this evening. (You didn't finish the job.)
As you can see, the opening sentences are identical but the extra info reveals the completion/non-completion.

 

[Marika33]

What may have been described while happening as "repairing the clock" is not, in hindsight, "repairing the clock" if the clock never got repaired. In hindsight, it is "trying to repair."

You can say you spent an hour today training the dog and it will be understood that the dog was not fully trained in just one hour.

Finally, "trying to paint" a wall is pretty much nonsense.

I thought that English doesn't have the perfective and imperfective aspects and that therefore the meaning comes from the context. To my mind, "trying to repair the clock" is as nonsensical (or sensical) as "trying to paint a wall".

To my mind, if something is extremely challenging and causes you to put much effort into it, it is "trying", and it doesn't matter if it's "painting a wall" or "repairing the clock".

I spent twenty minutes reparing the clock last night. - This is something that I was doing (did?) for twenty minutes last night.
I spent thirty minutes painting a wall in my room last night. - This is something that I was doing (did?) for thirty minutes last night.

Doesn't "I did my homework" mean I completed it?

No, it does not mean that, as far as word meaning goes. As long as you continue to think this, you'll be confused.

I did my homework for forty minutes.

The only thing we know from this is that there was an action that lasted for a duration of forty minutes. We don't know from the words whether the homework was completed. Is that clear?

No native speaker would ever say "I did my homework for forty minutes".

Really? I can't imagine why you'd think that. It seems perfectly natural to me. Do you two really mean that you just can't imagine anyone ever saying such a thing? I wonder why not.

(source)

 

[Piscean]

@Marika: if you are concerned about why probus and jutfrank gave different opinions, please raise this in the original thread.

 

[SoothingDave]

To my mind, if something is extremely challenging and causes you to put much effort into it, it is "trying", and it doesn't matter if it's "painting a wall" or "repairing the clock".

I think you are thinking of the wrong definition of "trying."

It can mean "difficult or annoying; hard to endure.."

It is also the gerund or present participle of "make an attempt or effort to do something."

I can try to toss a piece of paper into the trash from across the room. It's not particularly difficult or hard to endure.

 

[jutfrank]

The verb try typically carries an implication of failure.

a) I'm trying to fix this clock.

This doesn't imply that I will fail, but there is the suggestion of the possibility that I will fail.

b) I tried to fix the clock.

This has a heavy implication that I failed to fix the clock.

 

[Marika33]

@Marika: if you are concerned about why probus and jutfrank gave different opinions, please raise this in the original thread.

This is not directly my goal. I'm trying to understand why "trying" is needed (as SoothingDave said in #2) in "reparing the clock", but not in "painting a wall" and "training the dog" (as Tarheel said in the other thread). As I said above, I thought that English doesn't have the perfective and imperfective aspects and that therefore the meaning comes from the context. To my mind, "trying to repair the clock" is as nonsensical (or sensical) as "trying to paint a wall" or "trying to train the dog".

 

[emsr2d2]

This is not directly my goal. I'm trying to understand why "trying" is needed (as SoothingDave said in #2) in "reparing the clock", but not in "painting a wall" and "training the dog" (as Tarheel said in the other thread). As I said above, I thought that English doesn't have the perfective and imperfective aspects and that therefore the meaning comes from the context. To my mind, "trying to repair the clock" is as nonsensical (or sensical) as "trying to paint a wall" or "trying to train the dog".

Training a dog is a process that takes effort and understanding on the part of the trainer and the dog. It could succeed but it could also fail.
Painting a wall requires one person to have some paint (and a wall). Unless some external circumstance interfered with the simple process of painting a wall, the assumption is that the painter succeeded in their task.

 

[Marika33]

Thanks, Emsr2d2.

Is B's reply odd here?

A: He spent hours repairing trying to repair the clock last night.
B: So ... did he repair it?
A: Nope (he didn't). He decided to take it to a watch repair shop. / Yes, in the end he did (repair it).

Do I need to add "trying" here, "He spent two hours writing his story"? To me, it looks like I don't.

A: Last night, he spent two hours writing his story.
B: So ... did he write it (has he written it)?
A: Nope, there's still much to write. He's going to have written it in two days. / Yes. Those were the finishing touches.

 

[Piscean]

A: Last night, he spent two hours writing his story.

One problem here is that this is not a particularly natural thing to say. I would be far more likely to say He spent two hours working on his story.

 

[Marika33]

One problem here is that this is not a particularly natural thing to say.
I would be far more likely to say He spent two hours working on his story.

Are you sure you can't say, "Last night, I spent two hours writing my book"? I thought it was one of the possibilities in English. To my mind, "working" could be ambiguous in terms of the true nature of the action while "writing" shows exactly what it is you did (or were doing).

Training a dog is a process that takes effort and understanding on the part of the trainer and the dog. It could succeed but it could also fail.

So could repairing a clock, couldn't it?
Repairing a clock is a process that takes effort and understanding on the part of the repairer. It could succeed but it could also fail.

Still, I don't get it why you're saying "He spent two hours repairing the clock last night" is odd while "He spent two hours training his dog last night" is OK. It doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Piscean]

Are you sure you can't say, "Last night, I spent two hours writing my book"?

I did not say that.

I thought it was one of the possibilities in English.

It's grammatical. It's just that we would be more likely to express the idea in other ways. However, "Last night, I spent two hours writing my report" is more natural.

To my mind, "working" could be ambiguous in terms of the true nature of the action while "writing" shows exactly what it is you did (or were doing).

I said working on.