[Grammar] How am I going to explain this ...

[TinkerTailor]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum so I will just say "Nice to meet you all" quickly beforehand.

I am in the middle of correcting some of my students exercises, and my brain is all over the place!

I have just corrected this sentence which has been mistaken by a great number of students - 'What's the most beautiful place have you ever visited?' TO 'What's the most beautiful place you have ever visited?' Which I know is correct because I've spoken English all my life!

I just know they are going to ask me WHY this evening and tbh I can't say WHY! (Bad teacher :-( )

If there's anybody out there who can help me ... please, please, pretty please!

Kind regards

 

[Matthew Wai]

'What's the most beautiful place you have ever visited?'

I take it to mean 'What's the most beautiful place which you have ever visited?', where the relative clause is not a question. So 'have' should not be before 'you'.

Not a teacher.

 

[TinkerTailor]

Matthew: Personally, I'd use the relative pronoun 'that' but when I say this sentence out loud I can't hear or see the necessity of it.

Of course it's a relative clause so I treat the form like an affirmative sentence, thank you! I've just been thinking too hard and confusing myself over something which is essentially very simple! Doh! ;-)

Now I have to explain WHY the word EVER is in there, bearing in mind that I've just told them 'EVER' is only used in questions!!!! Arrgggghhh!

 

[Matthew Wai]

'EVER' is only used in questions!!!!

The sentence below is not a question.
'If you ever need any help, just let me know.'── quoted from http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/ever_1

PS The teachers here do not encourage using multiple exclamation marks.

Not a teacher.

 

[TheParser]

(Bad teacher :-( )

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello, good teacher:

1. You might want to write the sentence on the chalk-, whiteboard with the relative pronoun "that" and without the adverb "ever":

"What is the most beautiful place that you have visited?"

a. Explain to them that the relative pronoun "that" refers to "the most beautiful place."
b. Tell them that we may delete "that" in that sentence because it is the object. I.e., "You have visited that."
c. Tell them that your sentence is actually a combination of two sentences:

i. What is the most beautiful place?
ii. You have visited the most beautiful place.

As you can see, it would be very difficult to know the meaning of those two sentences.

2. Regarding "ever," here is some information that may interest you. It comes from Michael Swan:

a. " 'Ever' is used in affirmative sentences after superlatives [my emphasis]." His example: "What is the best book you've ever read?"

b. He adds that "ever" is NOT restricted to questions. His example: "It's the biggest picture ever painted."


James


NOTES:

1. Most American teachers prefer that one use "that" for defining clauses.
2. Personally, I believe that learners should NOT delete "that" until they become fluent.
3. Mr. Swan's book is Practical English Usage. (Many teachers -- and fans of English, such as I -- find it indispensable.)
4. After your students understand the role of "that," then you can add "ever" to the sentence.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I have just corrected this sentence which has been mistaken by a great number of students - 'What's the most beautiful place have you ever visited?' TO 'What's the most beautiful place you have ever visited?' Which I know is correct because I've spoken English all my life!

You are correct that the first question is wrong. The second is correct. I have no problem with "ever". I also don't think "which" or "that" is needed after "place".

 

[Esredux]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum so I will just say "Nice to meet you all" quickly beforehand.

I am in the middle of correcting some of my students exercises, and my brain is all over the place!

I have just corrected this sentence which has been mistaken by a great number of students - 'What's the most beautiful place have you ever visited?' TO 'What's the most beautiful place you have ever visited?' Which I know is correct because I've spoken English all my life!

I just know they are going to ask me WHY this evening and tbh I can't say WHY! (Bad teacher :-( )

If there's anybody out there who can help me ... please, please, pretty please!

Kind regards

In "(a)What is the most beautiful pace (b)you have ever visited?"
(a) is a question but (b) is not (those who wouldn't believe could try coming up with answers)

 

[emsr2d2]

You could tell them to think about the answer first.

Answer: Rome is the most beautiful place I have ever visited.
Question: What is the most beautiful place you have ever visited?

I'm sure they would not suggest that the answer should be "Rome is the most beautiful place have I ever visited."