Humble; Humility

[Huck Riley]

I am looking for a word for "humble" without having arrived at that condition through having been humbled. Likewise, "humility" without having been humiliated. I'd prefer to not have to write a lengthy distinction. Or, if there are no substitutes, then a distinction which would differentiate arrival at those conditions through non-human circumstance. For example, cancer, or awe, might be a non-human circumstance which could humble one; bringing them to humility. Whereas a cuckold would be humbled or humiliated by another person, thus arriving at being humble and with humility.

 

[emsr2d2]

Welcome to the forum.

Can you tell us why you need to do this? Also, it's very unusual for a native English speaker to give their member type as "Student or Learner". If you're studying your native language in depth, please tell us what you're studying for (degree, masters, a writing qualification etc). All of this information will help us to help you.

 

[Huck Riley]

Welcome to the forum.

Can you tell us why you need to do this? Also, it's very unusual for a native English speaker to give their member type as "Student or Learner". If you're studying your native language in depth, please tell us what you're studying for (degree, masters, a writing qualification etc). All of this information will help us to help you.

I am a thinker who sometimes puts his thoughts to paper. I've been thinking about masculinity, toxic masculinity, strength, and wisdom.

I am a student in the following sense (stolen from an internet search):

"The idea of "always a student" emphasizes the importance of lifelong learning and a growth mindset. It suggests that even when someone achieves a high level of expertise, they should maintain the curiosity and willingness to learn from others. This perspective is often associated with success and personal growth."

My dictionary definitions of "humility" and "humble" list what I personally perceive as both positive and negative ways at arriving at the characters. My writer's thesaurus, quite correctly, leads me to alternatives of "humility" and "humble" which suffer the same referenced ambiguity.

The closest I can come to a word that I am looking for would be "Socratic". But I thought those better versed in the English language might know of an alternative word to describe a man who has the character of humility, without having been humiliated; a man who has the character of being humble, without having been humbled.

I'm looking for a term which covers a certain universal virtue that even a self-described "Alpha Male" might understand as something to respect or aspire to, without offending what might be his fragile sense of self.

For example, I don't want to say: "Willy and Joe exhibit unquestionable "male" toughness, while still being humble, and demonstrating humility". I want a word that won't expose itself to an "Alpha male" critique of "Beta" or "cuckold" as the foundation for the character.

 

[Huck Riley]

After discussion with my wife, I believe "equanimity" (and similar words) is what I was looking for. Thank you for your time.

 

[jutfrank]

You don't have to 'be humbled' in order to be humble or to live a humble life. Is that what you're suggesting?

I can't see how equanimity is anything close to humility.

 

[Huck Riley]

You don't have to 'be humbled' in order to be humble or to live a humble life. Is that what you're suggesting?

I can't see how equanimity is anything close to humility.

Can you please provide a word I can use in lieu of "humble", which precludes the possibility that one became humble because they were humbled?

I chose "equanimity" because it does not elicit the question as to how it came to be a characteristic.

 

[jutfrank]

Can you please provide a word I can use in lieu of "humble", which precludes the possibility that one became humble because they were humbled?

I think it pretty much does preclude that possibilty. If someone were to be humbled we'd likely use the adjective 'humbled'.

It really all depends on how you're going to use the word, in its natural context. Are you writing something?

I chose "equanimity" because it does not elicit the question as to how it came to be a characteristic.

Okay, but first, it's not close in meaning to 'humililty', is it? Do you really think it is? And secondly, the word 'humility' does not imply any particular awesome or degrading experience.

If you have a specific context in mind to offer us, perhaps we can be of more help.

 

[Huck Riley]

I think it pretty much does preclude that possibilty. If someone were to be humbled we'd likely use the adjective 'humbled'.

It really all depends on how you're going to use the word, in its natural context. Are you writing something?



Okay, but first, it's not close in meaning to 'humililty', is it? Do you really think it is? And secondly, the word 'humility' does not imply any particular awesome or degrading experience.

If you have a specific context in mind to offer us, perhaps we can be of more help.

If you are humble, because you've been humbled (let's say your a cuckold), then I don't think the possibility of misunderstanding has been excluded. In reading the definition of "humble", there are both positive (your) and negative (per Oxford English Dictionary) understandings of the word. I would argue "a low estimate" of one's importance, "low social" rank, "lower dignity" are negatives. Whereas, when I hear the word humble, I tend toward the positive. A humble man is a good man. But the question is raised, what is meant by humble? I do not want to get into that issue. I want a word that cannot be misconstrued in the negative.

I could make the same argument about "humility", but I think you get the picture. Whether or not an awesome or degrading experience is implied, is not the point. A degrading experience *could* be implied, by definition. I want a word which avoids getting into a discussion about what the genesis of the characteristic might be.

As to "equanimity", it is the characteristic that a humble man of humility would have, *if* we define those terms in the way you and I would like to define them, sans any negative connotations. Assuming the positive humble man of humility, can you imagine him *not* being equanimeous? I can't.

 

[emsr2d2]

Are you suggesting that simply saying that a particular man is humble would be taken to be a negative description? That makes no sense. If we wanted to suggest that they had been humbled in some way, we'd say that. We wouldn't just say "He's humble". The adjective on its own suggests, to me at least, a simple characteristic of a person's personality - one they've probably demonstrated for at least their entire adult life. (Kids are rarely described that way.)

 

[Huck Riley]

That is exactly what I am suggesting. It may not make any sense to assume people know the definition of the word "humble", but if they do, then it clearly suggests he has been humbled. It is my belief that people aren't born with a low opinion of themselves.

 

[jutfrank]

Right. I can't see any way that one could construe humility as a negative thing, unless there were some special context.

Huck: If you take the time to describe more carefully exactly what you mean, then perhaps we can find another word for you.

I want a word that won't expose itself to an "Alpha male" critique of "Beta" or "cuckold" as the foundation for the character.

I'm struggling to make any sense of this. Do you want to try again?

 

[Huck Riley]

Right. I can't see any way that one could construe humility as a negative thing, unless there were some special context.

Huck: If you take the time to describe more carefully exactly what you mean, then perhaps we can find another word for you.



I'm struggling to make any sense of this. Do you want to try again?

The only way they could construe "humility" as a negative thing is if they read the dictionary definition of it, and knew what it could mean, per the dictionary.

No special context is needed and, it is precisely providing a special context that I want to avoid.

I could say: "He was a humble man. Any by that, I don't mean he thought low of himself, or was of a lower station in life, or had ever been humbled. I just mean he was a good man who held his counsel, a quiet man, who was equanimous in character, and was never brought low by another man."

I'm looking for a word that avoids all that explanation that would otherwise be required, should anyone have read the dictionary definition.

If I may make so bold, I have described, carefully, all that one needs to know to answer the question. Apparently "humble" and "humility" are to stand on their own as good things, notwithstanding the dictionary definition of those terms.

The "Alpha male" "beta" thing was something to aid in your understanding of the question. But alas, I think I will move on. All the best to you.

 

[emsr2d2]

When someone is described as humble, we don't take it to mean that they have a low opinion of themselves. I'm aware that it's given as a possible dictionary definition but the way it's generally used here is as a synonym for "modest".

 

[Huck Riley]

When someone is described as humble, we don't take it to mean that they have a low opinion of themselves. I'm aware that it's given as a possible dictionary definition but the way it's generally used here is as a synonym for "modest".

I'm similarly inclined. In fact, on this side of the pond, I think most people would say being humble, having humility, being modest, being stoic, are all "good" things, notwithstanding the Oxford English Dictionary definition of those terms. But, I think we might be a bit more confrontational and nit-picking than you are. I've already discussed "humble" and "humility". "Modest" suffers likewise, and is typically assigned to the effeminate. Stoicism might "appear" nice on the outside, but intones a hiding, pushing down, or suppression of ones feelings (which can display as frustration or anger or illness). I was hoping for a term like we would hope of "humble" and "humility" without the baggage that you may not perceive as existing in your country.

I don't think I am going to find the word I want. Perhaps I will search other languages.

Anyway, as a comment on this page before I leave, I find it extremely slow, frustrating, and sometimes my posts are deleted.

 

[Tarheel]

Note.

you're - you are
your - belonging to you

 

[Huck Riley]

Note.

you're - you are
your - belonging to you

Thanks.

I'm no expert, but I would have chosen a colon instead of a period after the word "note".

 

[Huck Riley]

Not perfect, but maybe "mensch" or "chivalrous".

 

[Tarheel]

I think of Doctor S as humble. He knows quite a lot, but he doesn't brag about it. On the other hand, those who know little or nothing are often quite confident in their opinions.

You have to learn quite a bit before you realize how little you know.