I and me

Ju

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1. I and May are playing.
2. May and I are playing.
3. Me and May are playing.
4. May and me are playing.

Sentence 3 and 4 are grammatically wrong. Am I right?
 

Charlie Bernstein

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And you haven't mentioned 1 or 2. Which one of them is right?
 
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Ju

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Tell us why you think so.

I believe that sentence 1 and 2 are correct because I remember I was taught in school before.

I'm not sure about sentence 3 and 4 because sometimes I heard someone saying these.
 

Charlie Bernstein

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I believe that sentence 1 and 2 are correct.
The question was, "Which one of them is right?" That means one of them is right and one is wrong.

Start by answering Jut's question in post #2.
 

Ju

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The question was, "Which one of them is right?" That means one of them is right and one is wrong.

Start by answering Jut's question in post #2.

Sentence 2 is right and sentence 1 is wrong.
 

Tdol

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Ryan the Lion

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I won't add too much as I feel Piscean has answered the question, but one point I'll add is that #1 is a sentence I would deem to be functionally wrong despite being grammatically correct.
I've never heard anyone start off with 'I' in that way that wasn't followed by a verb/auxiliary verb and it sounds completely wrong, so avoid using it.
As a basic tool to go by for formal and informal, use 'X and me' for informal, casual talk and 'X and I' for formal and professional use. (#2 and #3).
If I employ standard English which I have to do these days because I live in a country and work in a company where English isn't the local language, I use the latter but in my dialect I use the former, sometimes.
 
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emsr2d2

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As a basic tool to go by for formal and informal, use 'X and me' for informal, casual talk and 'X and I' for formal and professional use. (#2 and #3).

I never encourage learners to use "X and me" (as the subject pronouns), even in casual, informal speech. It's far too easy to get so used to using it that people forget the correct form.

For any learners who struggle with this, here's a trick to help you work out whether to use "I" or "me" as a subject pronoun - remove the other person from the equation and see what you are left with.

May and I were playing in the park.
Remove May from the situation and repeat the sentence, keeping the pronoun but following it with the correct verb form.
I was playing in the park. :tick:

May and me were playing in the park.
Remove May from the situation and repeat the sentence, keeping the pronoun but following it with the correct verb form.
Me was playing in the park. :cross: (I'm sure most learners would recognise that that's wrong.)

The same rule applies to object pronouns, an area in which lots of native speakers get it wrong.

Helen gave a slice of cake to May and me.
Remove May from the situation and repeat the sentence.
Helen gave a slice of cake to me. :tick:

Helen gave a slice of cake to May and I.
Remove May from the situation and repeat the sentence.
Helen gave a slice of cake to I. :cross: (Again, most learners would recognise that that's wrong but, like some native speakers, don't think about it that way and incorrectly use "I". Some native speakers think it makes them sound more formal/professional/well-educated. They're very wrong.)
 

Ryan the Lion

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I understand that emsr2d2 and I do agree with you, but I think it's important that learners, particularly if they may evermove to a country where English is the native language, that they mirror where they are living so as to better fit in with the community.
I always believe language is every bit culture as it is communication. I do get, however, that it could become a bad habit, so you do make a valid point. Still, as long as learners realise this and make the safe bet of using 'I' instead of 'me', then I think it's okay.
 

Tdol

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Safe bets are good bets- fewer learners will be looked down on for saying if I were, even though many exams no longer test was/were.
 

Ryan the Lion

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That's a good point. In BrE, the conjunctive is not so used like in AmE as far as I am aware.
I think it's good that people aren't tested or judged on 'was/were' as much as I find the conjunctive really redundant for the most part, well, in my view at least.
I only ever use 'were' for when something is completely hypothetical/fantastical e.g. If I were you, if I were able to fly. But, I use 'If I was' for things that did happen or can realistically happen. The prime example is 'If I were/was' a rich man. Personally, I use was because it could happen with a degree of realism.
I did teach my former students to use 'were', however.
 
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Ryan the Lion

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They wouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable for using the correct form, unless it sounds far too formal.
My English dialect is 'East Midlands English' and the 'Me and X' is acceptable there, at least in Leicestershire. But even then, I would only teach that if I knew someone had intentions on moving to there.
I think this topic is pretty much covered now, so I'll be unearthing other topics and replying there since from hereon it's going to just be a battle of opinions. :)
 
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Charlie Bernstein

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. . . As a basic tool to go by for formal and informal, use 'X and me' for informal, casual talk and 'X and I' for formal and professional use. (#2 and #3). . . .
Where I live, you'll hear things like:

Me and Corey seen about a hundred wild turkeys when we was out snowmobiling, and them turkeys run like I ain't never seen nothing run before.


Maine-speak can be vividly expressive, and I hope it never dies. But should I encourage visitors and newcomers to try it? At best, they'd sound like they were making fun of Mainers. That would be bad, right?
 

Tarheel

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As a basic tool to go by for formal and informal, use 'X and me' for informal, casual talk and 'X and I' for formal and professional use. (#2 and #3).

I don't agree with with that distinction.

I avoid using former or latter. Why? Their use always confuses me. Rather than assume people understand me, I would prefer to make things clear.
 
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