I insisted him on opening the door for me.

[tufguy]

1) I insisted him on opening the door for me.

2) I insisted him to open the door for me.

3) I insisted on him to open the door for me.

Please check my sentences.

 

[tzfujimino]

They are all incorrect, unfortunately.

 

[tedmc]

They are all incorrect, unfortunately.

Why are they incorrect and how would you correct them?

 

[tzfujimino]

I'd like tufguy to think about those things.
I'm sure you will agree with me.

 

[Rover_KE]

I agree with you, tzfujimino.

Ted, it's tufguy's thread, so let's wait for him to try again or ask for clarification.

 

[Phaedrus]

It looks as though Tufguy is going to tough it out and go without an answer. ;-)

 

[emsr2d2]

You might well be right, but we're going to tough it out and stop just handing out answers.

 

[tufguy]

You might well be right, but we're going to tough it out and stop just handing out answers.

What is wrong with these sentences?

 

[tufguy]

It looks as though Tufguy is going to tough it out and go without an answer. ;-)

Haha:-D. Your sentence made me laugh. It was funny. I will never go without an answer.

Why would I do that? I was busy, sorry.

 

[tufguy]

You might well be right, but we're going to tough it out and stop just handing out answers.

Sorry, I was busy. You don't have to tough it out. I am the one who does it.:lol:

 

[tedmc]

What is wrong with these sentences?

If you had checked "insist" in a dictionary, you would have noticed that the word is used as follows:

insist on (something, a noun/gerund)
insist that ....( a clause)
Never, insist someone or insist on someone to do something.

 

[tufguy]

If you had checked "insist" in a dictionary, you would have noticed that the word is used as follows:

insist on (something, a noun/gerund)
insist that ....( a clause)
Never, insist someone or insist on someone to do something.

So, can I say "I insisted on opening the door"? But where to use "Him" in this sentence?

 

[emsr2d2]

So, can I say "I insisted on opening the door"? But where to use "Him" in this sentence?

Tufguy, how long have you been here and how many times have you seen us tell users that we don't use "how to" to formulate a question?

 

[Phaedrus]

I insisted on opening the door. - I insisted that I open the door.

I insisted on him opening the door. - I insisted that he open the door.

This thread has had me thinking about whether the following variants are possible:

? I insisted to open the door. (I insisted that I open the door.)
? I insisted for him to open the door. (I insisted that he open the door.)

Do those work for you, Piscean? I find them borderline acceptable. The pattern doesn't seem recognized in grammar books, though examples can be found.

The infinitival complementation pattern clearly works better with "demand" than it does with "insist." These are unquestionably good:

I demanded to open the door. (I demanded that I open the door.)
I demanded for him to open the door. (I demanded that he open the door.)

And of course the "on"-pattern doesn't work at all with "demand." What a curious state of grammatical affairs.

*[strike]I demanded on opening the door.[/strike]
*[strike]I demanded on him opening the door.[/strike]

 

[Phaedrus]

Not at all.

Among the examples I found is the following one, from John Milton's Defense of the People of England:

"But if you insist to know by what Right, by what Law; by that Law, I tell you, which God and Nature have enacted, viz. that whatever things are for the Universal Good of the Whole State, are for that reason lawful and just."

Unfortunately, I just discovered this is one of Milton's Latin works, the actual title being (or including the words) Defensio pro Populo Anglicano.

It does appear to be an early translation, though. Also, there is this other example, from Milton's Samson Agonistes:

"Afford me place to show what recompense
Towards thee I intend for what I have misdone,
Misguided. Only what remains past cure
Bear not too sensibly, nor still insist
To afflict thyself in vain."

 

[emsr2d2]

I don't find the "demanded" ones natural either.

 

[Phaedrus]

I don't find the "demanded" ones natural either.

They are natural, though, to grammarians (see Quirk et al., 1985, A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language, section 16.32, p. 1182).

 

[emsr2d2]

Maybe so, but what on earth is the point of "I demanded that I open the door"? When have you ever demanded that you do something yourself?

 

[Phaedrus]

Maybe so, but what on earth is the point of "I demanded that I open the door"? When have you ever demanded that you do something yourself?

That was a paraphrase of "I demanded to open the door." I was using the same type of paraphrase as Piscean was using, for the sake of consistency. My point was that sentences with the infinitival verbal complementation pattern found in "I demanded to open the door" and "I demanded for him to open the door" is indisputably correct. Please let me know if you'd like other citations from other grammar works.

The complementation pattern with simply "demanded to VP" (as opposed to "demanded for NP to VP") is perhaps most often found with passive infinitives, as in "I demand to be treated with respect." Here is what I consider to be a more natural paraphrase of "I demanded to open the door": "I demanded that I be the one to open the door." But one could say that is a paraphrase of "I demanded to be the one to open the door."

The potential quirkiness of isolated examples being set aside, the infinitival complementation pattern is correct and natural with "demand."

 

[GoesStation]

This thread having drifted into grammatical ruminations unlikely to interest the original poster, I'll close it here.