[Grammar] I might/could say one of these sentences

[NAL123]

While commenting on a few sentences, someone says:

1) I might say one of these sentences, depending on the context.

2) I could say one of these sentences, depending on the context.

What is the difference between 1) and 2)? Does 1) imply probability, or do they both imply only possibility? Are they indirect suggestions?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I might be in the minority here, but to me they mean the same thing.

Yes, there are subtleties, but for practical purposes, I think they'd be understood the same way.

Yes, might implies that you might not use any. But in ordinary conversation, so could could.

 

[NAL123]

I might be in the minority here, but to me they mean the same thing.

Yes, there are subtleties, but for practical purposes, I think they'd be understood the same way.

Yes, might implies that you might not use any. But in ordinary conversation, so could could.

How different is the "might" used in sentence 1) in the OP from the "might" used in sentence 3) below?

3) I might go to the market in the evening.

I ask this because I think "might" in 3) is not replaceable by "could", whereas the "might" in sentence 1) was more or less interchangeable with "could".

 

[jutfrank]

Yes, that's right. The two mights are quite different.

The might in sentence 1 is a hypothetical one (I tend to call it 'unreal') whereas the might in sentence 3 is a 'real' one, since the utterance states a real future possibility.

Concerning the question in post #1, my advice to you is this: Use 1, not 2.

 

[NAL123]

Yes, that's right. The two mights are quite different.

The might in sentence 1 is a hypothetical one (I tend to call it 'unreal') whereas the might in sentence 3 is a 'real' one, since the utterance states a real future possibility.

Concerning the question in post #1, my advice to you is this: Use 1, not 2.

Since you use the word "hypothetical/unreal" here, I've got another question for you:

1) I might say one of these sentences, depending on the context.

2) I could say one of these sentences, depending on the context.

3) You might try the gas station down the street.

4) You could try the gas station down the street.

5) I could be run over by a bus tomorrow.

6) I might be run over by a bus tomorrow.

7) He was jailed five years ago and could be released next year.

8) He was jailed five years ago and might be released next year.

My comments:

a) Except 6,7 and 8, all other sentences use "hypothetical/unreal" coulds and mights.

b) "might" and "could" are completely interchangeable in 3,4 (hypothetical) and 7,8 (real). They are not completely interchangeable in 1,2 and 5,6.

c) Although interchangeable in 3,4 and 7,8, "might" and "could" do not sound the same in each of the two pairs of sentences. (3 vs 4 and 7 vs 8)

d) All the "might"s, whether "hypothetical" or "real", sound exactly the same. Likewise, all the "could"s, whether "hypothetical" or "real", sound exactly the same. (though I'm a little unsure about the "could" (real) in sentence 7)

Are my observations correct?

 

[jutfrank]

Since you use the word "hypothetical/unreal" here, I've got another question for you:

1) I might say one of these sentences, depending on the context. (Probably unreal)

2) I could say one of these sentences, depending on the context. (Probably unreal)

3) You might try the gas station down the street. (Think of this as a suggestion)

4) You could try the gas station down the street. (Think of this as a suggestion)

5) I could be run over by a bus tomorrow. (Clearly unreal)

6) I might be run over by a bus tomorrow. (Probably unreal)

7) He was jailed five years ago and could be released next year. (Unreal)

8) He was jailed five years ago and might be released next year. (Real)

My comments:

a) Except 6,7 and 8, all other sentences use "hypothetical/unreal" coulds and mights.

See my parentheses above.

b) "might" and "could" are completely interchangeable in 3,4 (hypothetical)

Think of 3 and 4 as suggestions. Don't try to understand these utterances in terms of possibility. Both sentences make the same suggestion.

... and 7,8 (real).

No.

They are not completely interchangeable in 1,2 and 5,6.

Correct.

c) Although interchangeable in 3,4 and 7,8, "might" and "could" do not sound the same in each of the two pairs of sentences. (3 vs 4 and 7 vs 8)

No, they're not interchangeable in 7,8.

d) All the "might"s, whether "hypothetical" or "real", sound exactly the same. Likewise, all the "could"s, whether "hypothetical" or "real", sound exactly the same. (though I'm a little unsure about the "could" (real) in sentence 7)

Yes, I understand it's difficult to discriminate. But you should know that they do not sound exactly the same to me. I think you need a new way of approaching this subject.

Please keep your questions shorter. Thank you.

 

[NAL123]

7) He was jailed five years ago and could be released next year. (Unreal)

8) He was jailed five years ago and might be released next year. (Real)

Can I conclude that unlike "might", "could" is always unreal? In the following examples too:

9) An improvement in living standards could be years away.

10) She could arrive anytime now.

11) He could be in the market.

 

[jutfrank]

Can I conclude that unlike "might", "could" is always unreal?

Well, it's not quite so simple but yes, I think that's a useful place to start from.

 

[jutfrank]

There is nothing particularly 'unreal' about any of those.

Indeed, depending on the context, #10 and #11 could (!) be about very real possibilities.

Okay, yes. This is the problem with using example sentences that are not perfectly clear, and also with using words like 'real/unreal'. I think you and I have different ways of understanding this, Piscean. I think this thread would benefit if just one of us were to answer. I'll let you take over.

 

[NAL123]

Yes, I understand it's difficult to discriminate. But you should know that they do not sound exactly the same to me.

You say they do not sound the same. Do you mean in each sentence from 1) through 8), you hear a different sound of "might" or "could" and the sound is only related to the context of that particular sentence?

 

[jutfrank]

I am not going to 'take over' anything. In this thread, as in others, I will comment when I feel I have something relevant to offer.

Okay, I'll take it you don't have anything relevant to offer, then.

 

[jutfrank]

You say they do not sound the same. Do you mean in each sentence from 1) through 8), you hear a different sound of "might" or "could" and the sound is only related to the context of that particular sentence?

I mean that might and could have different meanings/uses.

If you want to develop a good sense of the difference, it's important to work with very clear examples. Unfortunately, not many of your examples are, in my opinion.

 

[NAL123]

I mean that might and could have different meanings/uses.

If you want to develop a good sense of the difference, it's important to work with very clear examples. Unfortunately, not many of your examples are, in my opinion.

In the context of a soldier knowing they will be going into danger, Do they both sound correct and mean the same thing?


"I might die tomorrow".

"I could die tomorrow".

In your opinion, which one is "real" and which one, "unreal"?

 

[jutfrank]

In the context of a soldier knowing they will be going into danger, Do they both sound correct and mean the same thing?


"I might die tomorrow".

"I could die tomorrow".

In your opinion, which one is "real" and which one, "unreal"?

I'm not sure what you mean by "sound correct". Can you explain?

No, they don't mean exactly the same thing. The way I'd begin to explain this difference is by using the terms 'real' and 'unreal' whereby the first sentence is real and the second is unreal.

 

[NAL123]

I'm not sure what you mean by "sound correct". Can you explain?

No, they don't mean exactly the same thing. The way I'd begin to explain this difference is by using the terms 'real' and 'unreal' whereby the first sentence is real and the second is unreal.

Last question:

A: Where is John?
B: He might be in the market.
B: He could be in the market.

Do they mean the same thing? Is the second sentence with "could" "unreal"?

 

[jutfrank]

Do they mean the same thing?

I'll give you two answers and let you choose which one is most useful to you:

1) Analytically, no. The differing modal verbs show very clearly that they do not mean the same thing. The modality is different. One way of beginning to explain this that I would use is with the terms' real/unreal', whereby the first is real and the second is unreal.

2) Practically, yes. Both utterances have the same illocutionary function (or so it seems). In both versions, speaker B seems to be making a suggestion as to where to find John. Since you have made up this dialogue yourself, I assume you can tell me whether my interpretation is correct.

My advice to you when thinking about this is to always to start with pragmatics. Think about speaker meaning first. The way to do this is to ask what the speaker is trying to do with his utterance. Instead of asking us whether He might be in the market and He could be in the market mean the same thing, you should have asked us whether they can both be used to do the same thing.

 

[NAL123]

I'll give you two answers and let you choose which one is most useful to you:

1) Analytically, no. The differing modal verbs show very clearly that they do not mean the same thing. The modality is different. One way of beginning to explain this that I would use is with the terms' real/unreal', whereby the first is real and the second is unreal.

2) Practically, yes. Both utterances have the same illocutionary function (or so it seems). In both versions, speaker B seems to be making a suggestion as to where to find John. Since you have made up this dialogue yourself, I assume you can tell me whether my interpretation is correct.

Does the addition of "I don't know" change anything? Would you make the same comments as 1) and 2) above?

A: Where is John?
B: I don't know. He might be in the market.
B: I don't know. He could be in the market.

 

[Tarheel]

I don't think "I don't know" changes anything. Clearly, if the person did know the answer to the question he or she could have been more specific.

 

[jutfrank]

Does the addition of "I don't know" change anything?

A: Where is John?
B: I don't know. He might be in the market.
B: I don't know. He could be in the market.

Yes, it does, pragmatically speaking. The function now is a simple speculation. Speaker B is speculating as to John's whereabouts.

 

[NAL123]

Yes, it does, pragmatically speaking. The function now is a simple speculation. Speaker B is speculating as to John's whereabouts.

But analytically, "might" is "real" and "could" is "unreal" still. Am I right?