[Grammar] I saw him entering the room

[KJOU]

1) I saw him entering the room.

2) I saw him enter the room.

I do know both are correct, but what I am not 100% sure is the following.

3) I saw him entered the room.

Could you let me know whether the sentence 3 is correct and if it is correct, why it is.

Thank you.

 

[slevlife]

3 is not correct. But you could say "I saw when he entered the room."

 

[emsr2d2]

3 is not correct. But you could say "I saw when he entered the room."

I find that very odd in BrE unless you're trying to say that you can specify what time he entered the room. I'm wondering if you meant "I saw him when he entered the room".

 

[jutfrank]

I saw when he entered the room.

I agree with emsr2d2 that when would most likely be interpreted to mean 'what time'.

If the idea were that the speaker knows the proposition 'He entered the room' to be true, then:

I saw that he entered the room.

(that = the fact that)

 

[slevlife]

I find that very odd in BrE unless you're trying to say that you can specify what time he entered the room. I'm wondering if you meant "I saw him when he entered the room".

I agree with emsr2d2 that when would most likely be interpreted to mean 'what time'. If the idea were that the speaker knows the proposition 'He entered the room' to be true, then: I saw that he entered the room.

You both offered good alternatives, but I indeed meant "I saw when he entered the room," and for me it does not primarily have the meaning of "what time." For me, at least, it's essentially equivalent to "I saw him entering the room."

Using unnatural words, I could explain it as an abbreviation of "I was seeing him when he entered the room."

Maybe this is indeed a difference with AmE, or maybe it's not as widely used as I imagined. But I confirmed with my AmE-speaking girlfriend that it sounds natural to her for my intended meaning.

 

[jutfrank]

For me, at least, it's essentially equivalent to "I saw him entering the room."

Using unnatural words, I could explain it as an abbreviation of "I was seeing him when he entered the room."

I'm not sure I follow exactly what your intended meaning is. What is the word when doing to you?

Do you mean something like 'I witnessed the event', where the event is understood as his entering the room? Or do you mean something more like 'I was observing him at the time that he entered the room'?

 

[Skrej]

I have no issues as an AmE speaker with "I saw when he entered the room." I wouldn't take it as a comment on noticing the time, just as general acknowledgement that I witnessed him entering the room.

It's a fairly common way in AmE of stating you witnessed or noticed something. It can even be used as a question.

Did you see when he tripped on the stairs?
Yeah, I saw when he tried to act like it didn't happen.

 

[slevlife]

I'm not sure I follow exactly what your intended meaning is. What is the word when doing to you?

Do you mean something like 'I witnessed the event', where the event is understood as his entering the room? Or do you mean something more like 'I was observing him at the time that he entered the room'?

Your distinction is subtle but meaningful. Thanks for phrasing it that well. It's like "I witnessed the event."

A: How do you know he was there?
B: I saw when he entered the room.
A: Do you know what time it was?
B: No. Probably after 6.

In response to your question about what "when" is doing, you've helped me realize that it is filling in for something like "the event when/where/of." When I compare it to emsr2d2's "I saw him when he entered the room," I would say that dropping "him" shifts the sentence from your second meaning to your first.

 

[jutfrank]

A: How do you know he was there?
B: I saw when he entered the room.
A: Do you know what time it was?
B: No. Probably after 6.

I can't quite understand this context. Does person B (let's call person B Bob) mean that Bob saw him as he was in the process of entering the room (i.e., Bob is outside the room partially witnessing the event of entering the room). If so, this would be equivalent to I saw him entering the room.

Or does it mean that Bob saw him come into the room (i.e., Bob was already in the room)? If so, this would be equivalent to I saw him enter the room.

To address the OP question, I'd point out that see somebody doing something is used to say that the action witnessed is in progress whereas see somebody do something is used to say that the whole action is witnessed.

 

[slevlife]

Does person B (let's call person B Bob) mean that Bob saw him as he was in the process of entering the room (i.e., Bob is outside the room partially witnessing the event of entering the room). If so, this would be equivalent to I saw him entering the room.

Or does it mean that Bob saw him come into the room (i.e., Bob was already in the room)? If so, this would be equivalent to I saw him enter the room.

Bob hasn't differentiated between the two. The word "when" isn't offering any clues for that, so all that our detective A (Alice) has to go on to answer your question is "entered."

 

[Tdol]

I saw when he entered the room is fine with me, but, as a BrE speaker, I saw him entered the room doesn't work:

I saw him enter the room :tick:
I saw him entered the room. :cross:

(This speaker)

 

[KJOU]

Yes, what I intended to mean is exactly what you said like "I saw (that) he entered the room." Of course it needs a context.

 

[KJOU]

I saw that he entered the room.

Yes, sir. This is what I try to figure out the sentence you gave, " I saw that he entered the room' can mean I saw him entered the room.

 

[tedmc]

I saw that he entered the room.(Quote)

Yes, sir. This is what I try to figure out the sentence you gave, " I saw that he entered he room' can mean I saw him entered the room.

No, you cannot have entered without that or when, which you have been told earlier in post 2.

 

[5jj]

You can drop the that from I saw that he entered the room. I don't recommend it, but It's possible.

 

[emsr2d2]

Yes. [STRIKE]sir.[/STRIKE]

Please don't refer to users here as "Sir/sir". It's unnecessarily formal and suggests you assume we're all male.

 

[slevlife]

You can drop the that from I saw that he entered the room. I don't recommend it, but It's possible.

Just to clarify, you're not saying that the specific sentence "I saw him entered the room" is possible, right?

I would say that it's fine with "he," but not with "him." Using that, when, and nothing with "he entered" are are possible, but all of these require "he."

 

[5jj]

Just to clarify, you're not saying that the specific sentence "I saw him entered the room" is possible, right?

You are right.

 

[slevlife]

Please don't refer to users here as "Sir/sir". It's unnecessarily formal and suggests you assume we're all male.

I've seen this admonition a few times now on this forum, and for the record, I disagree with the first part of it. Not assuming gender is a very valid reason to avoid it, but "sir" and "ma'am" can be used for at least two reasons other than formality:

1. For speakers to project something about themselves that they feel is important. Namely, that they are the kind of person that goes out of their way to treat others with respect or recognition of seniority even when formality isn't warranted. (Edit: To be clear, this is a hypothetical I am imagining.)

2. For fun, in a friendly way that kind of serves as an intensifier for one's thanks, agreement/acknowledgement ("Yes, sir!"), or other sentiment. Maybe this is an advanced usage that requires appropriately calibrating the rest of your tone to ensure your usage is clear.

Based on reason 2, I frequently call my friends and work buddies "ma'am" and "sir."

 

[5jj]

"sir" and "ma'am" can be used for at least two reasons other than formality:

1. For speakers to project something about themselves that they feel is important. Namely, that they are the kind of person that goes out of their way to treat others with respect even when formality isn't warranted.

That may be the case in AmE, but it isn't in BrE.

I, a speaker of BrE, associate sir and ma'am/madam only with situations in which a degree of formality and/or recognition of hierarchy is required. In a forum such as this, I feel uncomfortable when people address me as sir. Because of my length of service here and/or a recognition of the helpfulness of some of my thousands of responses and/or my old age, some newer members may have a degree of recognition of my place as one of the 'senior members' (in the sense of old hands), but 'sir' is not appropriate here in BrE.