if you <were to use> or <used> some medicine that helped you, you would...

[NAL123]

English learner: When do you use the expression "It helped me a lot"?

Response #1:

English teacher: It can be used in many situations. For example, if you were to use some medicine that helped you, you would say, "It helped me a lot".

(Using a second conditional. As far as I know, the expression "were to use" is an irrealis marker of second conditional, just like the "would" in the result clause, and it does not indicate past time, but rather unreal present or future time. However, I'm not sure about the tense of the following bold verb "helped". I think it may be referring to past time, ie, helping at some point in the past, but I could be wrong!)

Response #2:

English teacher: It can be used in many situations. For example, if you used some medicine that helped you, you would say, "It helped me a lot".

My question: Is response #2 the same as response #1, ie, #2 is also a second conditional where the verb "used" is the same as were to use?
Or is #2 different from a second conditional and means something like assuming you used some medicine (in the past) that helped you, you would (now) say, "It helped me a lot", ie, the verb "used" in #2 does have past reference?

 

[Annabel Lee]

In both responses, I'd change "would" to "could"; both conditionals would then be nearly synonymous and unambiguous.

 

[NAL123]

In both responses, I'd change "would" to "could"; both conditionals would then be nearly synonymous and unambiguous.

What difference do you see with "would" that you do not see with "could", please?

 

[Annabel Lee]

What difference do you see with "would" that you do not see with "could", please?

In terms of possible ambiguity, there is, with "would," a reading of Response #2 according to which the conditional picks out a past regularity or habitual occurrence. On that reading, "if" can be substituted with "whenever":

If/Whenever you used some medicine that helped you, you would say, "It helped me a lot."​

 

[jutfrank]

My question: Is response #2 the same as response #1, ie, #2 is also a second conditional where the verb "used" is the same as were to use?

Yes, in both responses the 'if'-clause is a hypothetical. The verb 'helped' does indeed refer to past time, but past time within the frame of the hypothetical. In other words, we imagine a hypothetical situation (saying It helped me a lot) and then we imagine a past cause of that situation (the fact that it helped me a lot).

 

[NAL123]

Yes, in both responses the 'if'-clause is a hypothetical. The verb 'helped' does indeed refer to past time, but past time within the frame of the hypothetical. In other words, we imagine a hypothetical situation (saying It helped me a lot) and then we imagine a past cause of that situation (the fact that it helped me a lot).

Thank you very much for your reply! But it seems to me that I'm still a little bit confused here! If the English teacher had given the response in terms of a real conditional, they might've said:

(3) If you used some medicine that helped you, you say (or, you will say), "It helped me a lot".
and perhaps NOT:
If you use some medicine that helps you, you say (or, you will say), "It helped me a lot".

Am I right?

Then if we wanted to express the same thing using an unreal/hypothetical conditional, wouldn't we say:
(4) If you had used some medicine that helped you, you would say, "It helped me a lot".
rather than:
If you used some medicine that helped you, you would say, "It helped me a lot". (The sentence in the OP)
That is, an unreal past conditional clause (sentence 4) for a real past conditional clause (sentence 3)?

 

[jutfrank]

But it seems to me that I'm still a little bit confused here! If the English teacher had given the response in terms of a real conditional, they might've said:

(3) If you used some medicine that helped you, you say (or, you will say), "It helped me a lot".
and perhaps NOT:
If you use some medicine that helps you, you say (or, you will say), "It helped me a lot".

Am I right?

The response is not a real conditional. As I said, this is hypothetical, so unreal, not real. The verb 'used' refers to a kind hypothetical time, not to real past time. Remember that the speaker here is merely offering one hypothetical situation out of a million possible situations in which the phrase could be used.


(By the way, if you're going to quote other people's words, you really have to tell us where you saw or heard them.)

 

[NAL123]

Thank you very much! Last couple of questions:
You say:

The verb 'used' refers to a kind hypothetical time, not to real past time.

You also say:

The verb 'helped' does indeed refer to past time, but past time within the frame of the hypothetical.

So to conclude, in the OP sentence, ie:

English teacher: ...if you used some medicine that helped you, you would say, "It helped me a lot".

The verb "used" refers to hypothetical/unreal present or future time whereas the following bold verb "helped" refers to hypothetical/unreal past time. Am I right?

The second question is: would sentence (4) in my post #6, ie,

...If you had used some medicine that helped you, you would say, "It helped me a lot". (A mixed unreal conditional)

also be a valid response by the English teacher along with the responses #1 and #2 in the OP?

(By the way, if you're going to quote other people's words, you really have to tell us where you saw or heard them.)

This is not a direct quote, but something I created after observing how native speakers use conditional sentences in their answers.

 

[jutfrank]

So to conclude, in the OP sentence, ie:

English teacher: ...if you used some medicine that helped you, you would say, "It helped me a lot".

The verb "used" refers to hypothetical/unreal present or future time whereas the following bold verb "helped" refers to hypothetical/unreal past time. Am I right?

Basically, yes. I'm not sure how I'd describe the verb 'helped'. It's better to understand it as kind of real past within a hypothetical past. As I said, you imagine a hypothetical situation (unreal) and then you imagine what happened before that.

The second question is: would sentence (4) in my post #6, ie,

...If you had used some medicine that helped you, you would say, "It helped me a lot". (A mixed unreal conditional)

also be a valid response by the English teacher along with the responses #1 and #2 in the OP?

No. Using 'had used' in the condition clause would create a counterfactual past, which doesn't make sense here.

This is not a direct quote, but something I created after observing how native speakers use conditional sentences in their answers.

You created it how? Do you mean with the help of AI? The best way to study conditionals is to look at real examples of use in context. It doesn't make much sense making up your own sentences and then asking us what you mean.