[Grammar] It was/is there that I met John.

[kadioguy]

1.
a. It was there that I met John.
b. It is there that I met John.

Are both of them acceptable? What is the difference in meaning between them?
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2.
Can I think them as the following? If not, could you tell me the reason?

That I met John was/is there. ("It" refers to "that I met John".)

 

[probus]

I understand that there are no verb tenses in Chinese.

They are both acceptable depending on context, but they differ in meaning.

Use "it is there" when the speaker or narrator is using the present tense, and "was there" when the past tense is being used in the context.

 

[jutfrank]

2. No, not at all.

The sentence is equivalent to That's where I met John.

 

[kadioguy]

2. No, not at all.

It was/is there that I met John.

Isn't "it" here used in the position of the subject or object of a verb when the real subject or object is at the end of the sentence?

 

[jutfrank]

It was/is there that I met John.

Isn't "it" here used in the position of the subject or object of a verb when the real subject or object is at the end of the sentence?

Research cleft sentences.

 

[kadioguy]

Isn't "it" here used in the position of the subject or object of a verb when the real subject or object is at the end of the sentence?

Research cleft sentences.

Practical English Usage 3rd. edition

131 cleft sentences (2): it was my secretary who

1 preparatory it

We can use preparatory it (see 446) in cleft sentences. The words to be emphasised are usually joined to the relative clause by that.
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I would think preparatory it is similar to "used in the position of the subject or object of a verb when the real subject or object is at the end of the sentence".

 

[kadioguy]

We cannot say "That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding was yesterday".

I know this sentence is unnatural, but is it grammatically wrong?
I would think "That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding" is a noun clause, and it is the subject of the sentence. Is there anything wrong? :shock:

 

[kadioguy]

It is wrong, stylistically and grammatically.

Please compare it to this:

That the suspect has a strong alibi is an undeniable fact.

I think this sentence is correct, if so, why is "That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding was yesterday" wrong? They are so similar.

 

[Tdol]

Are both of them acceptable? What is the difference in meaning between them?

When and where did you meet him?

 

[jutfrank]

Please compare it to this:

That the suspect has a strong alibi is an undeniable fact.

I think this sentence is correct, if so, why is "That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding was yesterday" wrong? They are so similar.

I think it's because of the grammar of the word that in each case.

In the suspect sentence, that is part of a 'that-clause'. I think (I'm not at all sure) it can be called a complementizer.
In the John sentence, that is equivalent to when. It's part of a relative clause, so I suppose it's a relative adverb.

I'm not a grammarian, though, so I half expect to be corrected on this.

 

[YAMATO2201]

In the John sentence, that is equivalent to when.

I think you mean "where".

 

[jutfrank]

I think you mean "where".

Thanks. Yes, I meant where.

 

[kadioguy]

When and where did you meet him?

Partly from here:
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/it-was-there-that-where-i-met-john.1203067/

 

[YAMATO2201]

Please compare it to this:

That the suspect has a strong alibi is an undeniable fact.

I think this sentence is correct, if so, why is "That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding was yesterday" wrong? They are so similar.

It is an undeniable fact that the suspect has a strong alibi.

This is not a cleft sentence.

 

[kadioguy]

In the John sentence, that is equivalent to where. It's part of a relative clause, so I suppose it's a relative adverb.

A. That I met John was/is there.
B. The place that I met John was/is there.
C. Where I met John was/is there.

(A) is grammatically wrong, but (B) and (C) are correct. Is this thought right?

 

[kadioguy]

It is an undeniable fact that the suspect has a strong alibi.

This is not a cleft sentence.

Do you think "That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding" is a noun clause (that-clause)?

I would think it is, and a noun clause can be used as the subject of a sentence.

That's what I think.
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I referred to this:

 

[kadioguy]

How about these?

(1) That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding is true.
(2) That I met John was/is true.

Are they grammatically right?

 

[Rover_KE]

'That you don't like him is none of my business' is not a natural sentence.

You might hear a native speaker say/write 'The fact that you don't like him is none of my business'.

 

[YAMATO2201]

Do you think "That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding" is a noun clause (that-clause)?

I would think it is, and a noun clause can be used as the subject of a sentence.

That's what I think.

(3) *That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding was yesterday.

(4) *The fact that my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding was yesterday.

Do you take #3 to mean #4?

 

[kadioguy]

(3) *That my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding was yesterday.

(4) *The fact that my secretary sent the bill to Mr Harding was yesterday.

Do you take #3 to mean #4?

Yes, you can say that. In my opinion #3 and #4 are grammatically the same - they are both noun clauses.

Let's put this grammar point aside. Now I think the sentence XXX was yesterday sounds strange; it would be better to be something like XXX happened yesterday.