[Grammar] Mass noun - fish has or have

[DANAU]

I came cross a website which includes “fish” under its categorization of mass noun.

I am confused because a mass noun will always take the singular form of the verb following it.


However, I also read somewhere that fish can be plural and countable though it will remain

as ‘fish’and not ‘fishes’.


Examples:

“Some of the fish in the tank have not been eating.”


“The five fish are bought from the market this morning”


Can you explain why fish, though considered a mass noun, can take plural verb form.

 

[Raymott]

You're not using "fish" as a mass noun in those sentences. You're using it as the plural.
"The fish at this restaurant is always fresh." That is a use as a mass noun, and it takes a singular form.

 

[DANAU]

OK. I have also read somewhere that when fish is in the form of prepared food then it takes singular form.

I supposed that is the meaning of your sentence as well.

 

[Raymott]

Yes, when it's used to mean prepared food, it's often used as a mass noun. You can still say "This fish tastes good", meaning one fish, or "These fish taste good", meaning two fish on your plate.

 

[emsr2d2]

“The five fish [STRIKE]are[/STRIKE] were bought from the market this morning.”

Can you explain why "fish", though considered a mass noun, can take the plural verb form?

As soon as you put a number before "fish", you made it countable. By using "five", you made it countable and plural. Note that I changed the tense because "are" didn't work with "this morning".

One fish was bought from the market this morning. (Countable, singular)
Five fish were bought from the market this morning. (Countable, plural)
Fish was bought from the market this morning. (Uncountable therefore singular)
A few fish were bought from the market this morning. (Countable, plural)

There is one exception to this and that's if you use "some".

Some fish were bought from the market this morning. (Countable, plural)
Some fish was bought from the market this morning. (Uncountable (a selection of unspecified fish), singular)

 

[DANAU]

Note that I changed the tense because "are" didn't work with "this morning".

Thanks, emsr2d2.

I am still struggling to understand when to use present perfect tense.
Initially I was thinking it was a completed action with relevance to the present, example I am cooking dinner in the evening, so present perfect is fine.
But now I recall the sentence has the word 'this morning' which is considered as finished-time word or time marker.

Quoting from Practical English Usage by Swan, "we do not often use present perfect with words that refer to a completely finished
period of time like yesterday, last week, then, then, when, three years ago ... ".

Therefore, the correct tense should be past perfect - were bought - instead of present perfect.
For sentences with time marker, past perfect can be used but seldom the case for present perfect.

Have I understood correctly?

 

[DANAU]

Thanks, Piscean.

Oh no, until now I am still unclear about that.
I thought 'are bought' is present perfect of 'buy', when the correct form should be 'have bought'.

If I rephrase the sentence as "The five fish that I have bought from the market will be cooked later tonight", I hope I got it right this time.
Of course, if there is a time marker then I need to use simple past - "The five fish that I bought this morning ... ".

Hope I have understood it correctly.

 

[emsr2d2]

Oh no, until now I [STRIKE]am[/STRIKE] was still unclear about that. As you correctly stated below, with a time marker, the past simple is the appropriate tense.
I thought 'are bought' is the present perfect of 'buy', when the correct form should be 'have bought'.

If I rephrase the sentence as "The five fish that I have bought from the market will be cooked later tonight", [STRIKE]I hope I got it right this time.[/STRIKE] is it correct?
Of course, if there is a time marker then I need to use simple past - "The five fish that I bought this morning ... ". :tick:

I hope I have understood it correctly.

See above. You were unclear until now. Now you are not.

You need to spot the difference between the active voice and the passive voice.

I bought five fish this morning. (Active, past simple)
I have bought five fish. (Active, present perfect)
Five fish were bought this morning. (Passive, past simple)
Five fish have been bought. (Passive, present perfect)

My favourite trick to teach people how to spot the passive voice is to ask yourself "Can I add 'by zombies' to it?" If the answer is yes, then it's passive.

I bought five fish. :tick:
I bought five fish by zombies. :cross:
Five fish were bought by zombies. :tick:

Someone killed five men. :tick:
Someone killed five men by zombies. :cross:
Five men were killed by zombies. :tick: