o and ɔ sound in oʊ and ɔɪ

[Hansman]

I know the difference of the pronunciation between o and ɔ but I feel like o and ɔ in oʊ and ɔɪ sound the same as in boy [bɔɪ] and bowl [boʊl].
How does they sound to native English speakers?

 

[BobK]

I know the difference of the pronunciation between o and ɔ but I feel like o and ɔ in oʊ and ɔɪ sound the same ariptions in boy [bɔɪ] and bowl [boʊl].
How does they sound to native English speakers?

It's about ten years since I did any teaching, but I would transcribe bowl as /bǝʊl/ using the phonemic transcription system used in the Cutting Edge series (which doesn't use [o] either as a monophthong or in any diphthong). In fact I've never seen that symbol used in a transcription of British English (which is the only sort I know). (I've met it in other languages, but my transcriptions of French and German are Best Before June 1968 and November 1969 respectively.)

The diphthongs in those two words certainly sound different. A recipe that confused 'boil' /bɔɪl/ and /bǝʊl/ could be misleading. ;-)

 

[5jj]

When I first studied phonetics in the 1960s, the symbols we used in BrE were those of Daniel Jones, including /o/ for the sound in lot, /u/ for put, /ou/ for goat and bowl, and /ɔi/ for boy.

I returned to the subject in the mid 1970s to find that the lot symbol was now /ɔ/, put now /ʊ/, goat now /ǝʊ/ and boy /ɔi/. I think /ou/ was still used for bowl. /o/ had died.

By the time I took up the subject again in the late 1990s, the symbols in both the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (1990 edition) and and the Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary (1991 edition) were now (almost) universally accepted in BrE.

When you have questions about pronunciation, @Hansman, it would be helpful if you could tell us which transcription system you are using,

 

[BobK]

When I first studied phonetics in the 1960s, the symbols we used in BrE were those of Daniel Jones, including /o/ for the sound in lot, /u/ for put, /ou/ for goat and bowl, and /ɔi/ for boy.

I returned to the subject in the mid 1970s to find that the lot symbol was now /ɔ/, put now /ʊ/, goat now /ǝʊ/ and boy /ɔi/. I think /ou/ was still used for bowl. /o/ had died.

By the time I took up the subject again in the late 1990s, the symbols in both the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (1990 edition) and and the Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary (1991 edition) were now (almost) universally accepted in BrE.

When you have questions about pronunciation, @Hansman, it would be helpful if you could tell us which transcription system you are using,

Yes - systems evolve. My 'never seen' was a mistake - it referred to my English teaching experience (i.e. this century). My 1970s experience matches yours.

When I was teaching I found this useful, though beware of using it as a 'canonical' version, fixed for all time. Even in my brief teaching experience, I noticed changes. Whereas this has 44 phonemes, the Cutting Edge version had only 43 (it did without /ʊə/ if I remember rightly - though what it did about 'wooer' I don't know).

 

[5jj]

For those interested, some BrE transcriptions of pure are:

EPD (6th edn, 1944): /pjuə*/, /pjoə*/, /pjɔə*/, /pjɔ*/. (* indicates the final /r/ may be pronounced before a vowel sound.)

(Cambridge) EPD (18th edn, (2011): /pjʊə (r)/, /pɔː(r)/. ((r), a superscript r in the original, indicates the final /r/ may be pronounced before a vowel sound.)

Longman (3rd edn, 2008): /pjʊə/, /pjɔː/.

I'll have a look at wooer when I have more time.

When I was teaching I found this useful,

That link required me to download something. Sorry, but I don't do that.

 

[BobK]

.....

That link required me to download something. Sorry, but I don't do that.

Good move ((ie non-move).. I don't think I would now. But I did 20 yrs ago and, and haven't (knowingly) regretted it.

I've since thought that wooer is hardly a common word. It came to mind because of a folk song I used to sing, in which door and wooer rhymed. (They don't now, in my speech.)

 

[5jj]

Sorry; I'd forgotten I said I'd report on wooer.


EPD (1st edn, 1919): /wuːə/ (* indicates the final /r/ may be pronounced before a vowel sound.)

(Cambridge) EPD (18th edn, (2011): /wuːə/ (a superscript r in the original, indicates the final /r/ may be pronounced before a vowel sound.)

Longman (3rd edn, 2008): /wuː-ə/.