[Grammar] Past perfect or simple past before 'until'?

[Jokies]

Can you replace 'didn't' by 'hadn't' in
'She didn't ask for help until it was too late'?

I'd say that 'until' has to be replaced by 'before' in this case, but I'm not sure...

 

[Raymott]

No, but you can say, "She hadn't asked for help ..." That makes it past perfect, which you'd use if appropriate. 'Until' isn't a problem.

 

[Tarheel]

No. Keep the sentence as it is. Don't mess with it.

 

[Jokies]

Thank you. What's the difference in meaning between 'She didn't ask for help until it was too late.' and 'She hadn't asked for help until it was too late', then? Or isn't there any?

 

[Raymott]

"Didn't ask" is simple past. "Hadn't asked" is past perfect.
Sie fragte nicht.
Sie hatte nicht gefragt.
Present perfect is, “She hasn’t asked”. Sie hat nicht gefragt.

The usage of these tenses is broadly similar to in German, from what I remember.

 

[Tarheel]

What's the context?

 

[Jokies]

There is not really a context. It is an example from a grammar exercise book.
I would like to know whether a native speaker would prefer any one of the two forms in a particular context.
Why did you say the sentence should be left als it is?

 

[Matthew Wai]

Some native speakers prefer the simple past as long as the time sequence is already clear.
That's what I learnt from this forum.

 

[Rover_KE]

Why did you say the sentence should be left as it is?

Because it's correct and your suggested change is not.

 

[Jokies]

Why not? That's what I have been trying to find out...

 

[Matthew Wai]

The following might also apply to the OP's sentence.

'not until ..used to emphasize that something does not happen before a certain point in time or before something else has happened'── quoted from http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/until

 

[Jokies]

Thank you! And this means that "hadn't called for help" is incorrect in the sentence at question?

 

[Matthew Wai]

See below.

you can say, "She hadn't asked for help ..."

 

[Matthew Wai]

The point is that the OP can say 'She hadn't asked for help' if s/he wants to use the past perfect.