Past perfect/past simple + until - 2 sentences -

[Dominik92]

Hello all

Would it be possible to help me with these two sentences?

In both of them I am curious about whether or not I can use both past simple and past perfect - I understand that there would be a slight difference in the meaning then.

- French Open 1995 had been (was) the best tournament until the US Open final played in 2004.

- I didn't break* (hadn't broken ) him until the very end.

*break somebody's serve - this comes from the game of tennis

P.S. If I had to decide whether or not it is possible to use both tenses....I would not use the past perfect as it doesn't sound good to my ears in that sentence.

Thank you very much.

Dominik

 

[MikeNewYork]

Both tenses work for me.

 

[Dominik92]

Please tell what would be the difference between :

I had not broken him until the very end and I didn't break him until the very end.

 

[Tarheel]

It's clear what the second one means. Without proper context I can't figure out the first one.

 

[MikeNewYork]

The difference involves timing. One of the most common uses of the past perfect is staging the timing of events in the past. The past perfect verb happens before the simple past verb. Your sentence has no context, so it is not clear.

 

[Dominik92]

Ok I will try to create some context.


I played an incredibly tough match against Hewitt two years ago at Australian Open. I was two sets to low and thought it would be the worst match I had ever played in. I was right. Almost right. I hadn't broken/didn't break Hewitt' s serve until the very end. However then something changed. I don't know how I did it but I took the third set and managed to win the whole match. I couldn't believe it...

 

[Tarheel]

Simple past works fine there.

 

[Tarheel]

Simple past and past perfect are not interchangeable.

 

[emsr2d2]

- ​The 1995 French Open [STRIKE]1995[/STRIKE] had been (was) the best tournament until the 2004 US Open final. [STRIKE]played in 2004.[/STRIKE]

Note my amendments above.

 

[Tdol]

Ok I will try to create some context.


I played an incredibly tough match against Hewitt two years ago at Australian Open. I was two sets to low and thought it would be the worst match I had ever played in. I was right. Almost right. I hadn't broken/didn't break Hewitt' s serve until the very end. However then something changed. I don't know how I did it but I took the third set and managed to win the whole match. I couldn't believe it...

I prefer the simple past there because it suggests a change in the game, which is what the person seems to be suggesting. The past perfect is not wrong, but is talking more about how the game had progressed rather then suggesting that this was the moment everything changed.

 

[Dominik92]

I prefer the simple past there because it suggests a change in the game, which is what the person seems to be suggesting. The past perfect is not wrong, but is talking more about how the game had progressed rather then suggesting that this was the moment everything changed.

Yes! That´s what I was looking for. I can use both tenses (I would say that sometimes they can be interchangeable) BUT there always is a difference in emphasise. The same works for the sentence below, right? In my opinion (which doesn´t mean much compared to yours - I would say that in the sentence below there isn´t that big difference between the two tenses as it is in the example with "breaking", is it?)


- ​The 1995 French Open had been (was) the best tournament until the 2004 US Open final.

 

[emsr2d2]

After making those alterations, I realised I had failed to point out that the sentence isn't really logical. You can't compare a tournament to a final. You need to compare like with like.

The 1995 French Open was the best Grand Slam tennis tournament ever until the 2004 US Open.
The 1995 French Open final was the best until the 2004 US Open final.

 

[Dominik92]

But past perfect is still possible, right?