Push/Knock/Move over?

[Ashraful Haque]

I know that 'push/knock' over are different from 'move over.' But since they all end with 'over' I though it would be better to ask about them in a single post.

1) What's the difference between 'push someone/something over' and 'knock someone/something over?' Most dictionaries have the same definition, but are they used in the same way in real life?

2) According to the dictionaries 'move over' means 'to change position so that there is more space for someone else.' But is it a polite thing to say? Can I use it in a bus/train? I said the following without any idea whether it was rude or not:

In a cinema hall while getting out of my seat- "Please can you move over your legs so that I can pass?"
In a bus to tell a person to make space for me to seat- "Would you please move over?"

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Knock is harder than push. For instance, you knock on a door when you want someone inside to come open it, but you push it open when you're opening it yourself.

"Would you please move over?" is natural, but to an American it might sound somewhat aggressive. We're more likely to say:

- [Asking for a seat]: May I sit there? — Thanks!

- [Passing someone in a crowd]: Excuse me. — Thanks!

That's how Americans are likely do it. I read in The Prodigal Tongue by linguist Lynne Murphy that Americans use Thanks and Thank you more than the British do, and the British use Please and Sorry more than Americans do.

We both use all of them. Those are just common preferences. To American ears, Please often expresses anger or impatience: How many times do I have to tell you? Please wipe your shoes before you come in the house!

 

[jutfrank]

Are you asking about the core meaning of the particle over in push/knock/kick something over (where with all those verbs it's the same) and move over (where it's very different)?

 

[jutfrank]

"Would you please move over?" is natural, but to an American it might sound somewhat aggressive.

Yes, this applies equally in other varieties. There's nothing special about American people here. It's the phrasing of the utterance that gives it that tone, not merely the inclusion of please (although that does contribute).

To American ears, Please often expresses anger or impatience: How many times do I have to tell you? Please wipe your shoes before you come in the house!

That's also true of other varieties. There's nothing special about American usage in this respect, either. The tone comes partly from the the speaker's placement of Please at the beginning of the sentence, but much more so from the way that it's stressed.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

Knock is harder than push. For instance, you knock on a door when you want someone inside to come open it, but you push it open when you're opening it yourself.

So is there a difference when someone accidentally 'knocks a glass over' vs 'pushes a glass over?' Can people be knocked/pushed over as well?

"Would you please move over?" is natural, but to an American it might sound somewhat aggressive. We're more likely to say:

- [Asking for a seat]: May I sit there? — Thanks!

- [Passing someone in a crowd]: Excuse me. — Thanks!

That's how Americans are likely do it. I read in The Prodigal Tongue by linguist Lynne Murphy that Americans use Thanks and Thank you more than the British do, and the British use Please and Sorry more than Americans do.

We both use all of them. Those are just common preferences. To American ears, Please often expresses anger or impatience: How many times do I have to tell you? Please wipe your shoes before you come in the house!

I think I know what you mean. It's the same here in my country. Thanks.

 

[jutfrank]

knock a glass over :tick:
push a glass over :cross:

A key part of the sense of push something over is that the act is intentional. Knocking a glass over is unintentional.

 

[emsr2d2]

People can be knocked down by a car. It suggests, perhaps, a slightly less serious accident than being run over by a car.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

knock a glass over :tick:
push a glass over :cross:

A key part of the sense of push something over is that the act is intentional. Knocking a glass over is unintentional.

Thank you very much for this. If I say the following will it understood that it was accidental and not intentional?

-"Sorry I knocked one of your books over on my way in."

 

[emsr2d2]

Thank you very much for this. If I say the following, will it be understood that it was accidental and not intentional?

"Sorry. I knocked one of your books over on my way in."

Yes. That begs the question, though, where was the book? If it was freestanding on the floor, it could be knocked over. If it was on a bookshelf with no other books behind it, you could knock it over so it was lying flat on the shelf. However, if you knocked it and it fell off the shelf, then you'd say "Sorry. I knocked one of your books off the shelf on my way in".

 

[GoesStation]

Knock something over has the specific meaning of toppling the thing from its upright position to a horizontal one while its base remains at approximately its original location. For example, a chess player knocks over the king to indicate they've resigned.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

Knock something over has the specific meaning of toppling the thing from its upright position to a horizontal one while its base remains at approximately its original location. For example, a chess player knocks over the king to indicate they've resigned.

Yes. That begs the question, though, where was the book? If it was freestanding on the floor, it could be knocked over. If it was on a bookshelf with no other books behind it, you could knock it over so it was lying flat on the shelf. However, if you knocked it and it fell off the shelf, then you'd say "Sorry. I knocked one of your books off the shelf on my way in".

Thank you guys very much. So:
- Knock over= it falls from upright position to a horizontal. .
- Knock off somewhere= Falls off a surface to the ground.

Here the cat is knocking things off the table.

Here the cat has knocked over the vase.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

People can be knocked down by a car. It suggests, perhaps, a slightly less serious accident than being run over by a car.

Was going through the post one more time for better understanding. This reminds me, is there any difference between 'run someone over' and 'run over someone?'

 

[GoesStation]

Was going through the post one more time for better understanding. This reminds me, is there any difference between 'run someone over' and 'run over someone?'

No.

 

[jutfrank]

Was going through the post one more time for better understanding. This reminds me, is there any difference between 'run someone over' and 'run over someone?'

There are lots of differences in use, but the meaning is the same.

 

[Ashraful Haque]

There are lots of differences in use, but the meaning is the same.

Thank you. I know you can use these in a lot of different ways. I only wanted to know about running someone over with a car. If I say 'you almost ran over that old lady' or 'you almost ran that old lady over' would they mean the same thing?

 

[emsr2d2]

Thank you. I know you can use these in a lot of different ways. I only wanted to know about running someone over with a car. If I say 'you almost ran over that old lady' or 'you almost ran that old lady over' would they mean the same thing?

Yes.

 

[jutfrank]

Thank you. I know you can use these in a lot of different ways. I only wanted to know about running someone over with a car. If I say 'you almost ran over that old lady' or 'you almost ran that old lady over' would they mean the same thing?

Yes, I was talking only about running someone over with a car.

Yes, they mean the same thing.