Question tag —He has got to be the most beautiful boy ever...

[man of manners]

Hi!
This is a new thread in which we will discuss some sentences that need suitable question tags.
The sentence is:
He has got to be the most beautiful boy ever,........? [the context implies deduction]
My opinion: "isn't he?".

He has got to watch more films than I do, ..........? [the context implies deduction]
My opinion: "doesn't he?".

You can see the first response in this thread: https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/threads/11966-Question-tag
Thanks in advance!

 

[GoesStation]

Casiopea's response nailed it. Isn't he? is not possible; either hasn't he or doesn't he​ is.

 

[man of manners]

Casiopea's response nailed it. Isn't he? is not possible; either hasn't he or doesn't he​ is.

The first sentence is the same style of the second one.
Now, let's see the second one:
Casiopea said:
She has got to eat her vegetables, doesn't she?
She has got to eat her vegetables, hasn't she?
Consider what he wrote which I put in red. How can the tag contain "doesn't" while the sentence has "has got". That is what I mean.

 

[Raymott]

"She has got to eat her vegetables" -> "She has to eat her vegetables" ->"She does have to eat her vegetables, doesn't she?"
The meaning is preserved, so the "doesn't she?" tag is acceptable.

 

[GoesStation]

The doesn't she tag is an elision of "doesn't she have to?"

 

[man of manners]

"She has got to eat her vegetables" -> "She has to eat her vegetables" ->"She does have to eat her vegetables, doesn't she?"
The meaning is preserved, so the "doesn't she?" tag is acceptable.

I don't think so. I think the verb in the sentence should be "has" so that we can say "doesn't she?".
The meaning is not preserved at all because the doesn't she tag is an elision of "doesn't she have to?" [As GS said] and we don't use "have (got) to" in the negative to refer to deduction but we can use "can't". Using "doesn't have to/haven't got to" refers to obligation.
Compare: He can't be the most beautiful boy in the school. [It is impossible that he is the most.......]
He doesn't have to be the most beautiful boy in the school. [He is not necessarily the most...........]

What do you think now?

 

[Raymott]

I think you're over-analysing things as usual. That's not the way question tags work, at least in natural English.
If you're insisting that something has to be done, you're not likely to want a question tag. If you did, you'd probably say "hasn't she?".
But you were asking for a justification of Caseopia's response in #3, which I've given.

 

[man of manners]

I think you're over-analysing things as usual.

This is the way linguists work.

If you're insisting that something has to be done, you're not likely to want a question tag.

What your are saying implies that you think that "has to" refers to obligation but I said the context is about 'deduction'.

But you were asking for a justification of Caseopia's response in #3, which I've given.

I just gave this response to make my opinion which I was to mention later clear.
I would justify that Caseopia used "doesn't" while the sentence had "has got to" is that we tag the main verb not the modal or helping verb.
"In contexts where "must" shows 'deduction' we can tag "must" in the ordinary way. Since the sentence is positive, the question tag should be negative. But the negative form of "must" is "can't" not "mustn't" so the meaning is not perserved. We cannot use "can't" in the natural English. But since, for example, "he must be clever" in the context of 'deduction' equals "I am quite sure/certain he is clever", we can tag the main clause to preserve the meaing."

Based on my above explanation:
1- he must/has got to be clever, mustn't/hasn't/isn't he?
2- they must/have got to play well, mustn't/haven't/don't they?
3-she must/has got to cook well, ,mustn't/hasn't/doesn't she?
*************
4-he must have been clever, wasn't he?

 

[man of manners]

In my opinion,
1. ..., isn't he? is unnatural.
2. ..., don't they? is unnatural.
3. ..., doesn't she? is unnatural.

OK, but doesn't the reason I mentioned convince you? "But since, for example, "he must be clever" in the context of 'deduction' equals "I am quite sure/certain he is clever", we can tag the main clause to preserve the meaning because 'mustn't' cannot be used for deduction"

 

[man of manners]

No.

So, how can you explain the use of "mustn't" in the question tag while the context is not prohibition but deduction?

 

[Raymott]

THis is one of those rare occasions when I don't agree with you and, even more rare, do agree with man of manners.

That's fine. As I said, I would also use "hasn't she?".
I repeat, I wasn't asserting that my answer was more correct than others. It's not even what I would say. It was a defense of the quoted answer of Casiopea, whose answer has credit, and who is not here to defend her answer. Man of manners asked how that answer could be defended.

 

[man of manners]

The auxiliary verb used in the main clause in almost always the one used in the tag.

Can you tell me when this doesn't occur?

 

[GoesStation]

If I had been around in those days, I would have joined the thread to tell Casiopea that "She has got to eat her vegetables, doesn't she?" is unnatural. at least in BrE. It's as unnatural for me as "She's got a new boyfriend, doesn't she?' In both those sentences , 'has' is an auxiliary verb, and that's what we use as a basis for the question tag.

Although like you, I always use hasn't after "has got to be", I feel a little self-conscious saying it. It verges on hyper-correctness to me. I have a strong feeling that doesn't is far more common in AmE.

 

[man of manners]

Although like you, I always use hasn't after "has got to be", I feel a little self-conscious saying it. It verges on hyper-correctness to me. I have a strong feeling that doesn't is far more common in AmE.

I seem to know the reason, Gs. It is because "have got to" is not often used in the negative or the question forms in Am.E, let alone the negative question forms.
Is this right?

 

[GoesStation]

I seem to know the reason, Gs. It is because "have got to" is not often used in the negative or the question forms in Am.E, let alone the negative question forms.
Is this right?

It sounds plausible.

 

[man of manners]

I wrote a post and no one gave his opinion: If you please, read this post and tell me what you think.
https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...ful-boy-ever?p=1265278&viewfull=1#post1265278

 

[Raymott]

"In contexts where "must" shows 'deduction' we can tag "must" in the ordinary way. Since the sentence is positive, the question tag should be negative.
Maybe. Question tags can also follow the same form as the sentence when the meaning calls for it. "He must do it, must he?"; "He has to go, has he?" The intonation is different. But we can keep to the negative tags to make it simpler.

But the negative form of "must" is "can't" not "mustn't" so the meaning is not perserved. We cannot use "can't" in the natural English. But since, for example, "he must be clever" in the context of 'deduction' equals "I am quite sure/certain he is clever", we can tag the main clause to preserve the meaing."
OK, but we haven't (or, I haven't) been discussing deduction.

Based on my above explanation:
1- he must/has got to be clever, mustn't/hasn't/isn't he?
2- they must/have got to play well, mustn't/haven't/don't they?
3-she must/has got to cook well, ,mustn't/hasn't/doesn't she?
*************
4-he must have been clever, wasn't he?

Is this a question? I'd say:
1a He must be clever, mustn't he?
1b- He has got to be clever, hasn't he?
2a- They must play well, mustn't they?
2b- They have got to play well, haven't they?
3a- She must cook well, mustn't she?
3b- She has got to cook well, hasn't she (or perhaps "doesn't she?")
4-He must have been clever, musn't he?

 

[GoesStation]

Very few Americans would ever say mustn't he. In AmE, the typical question tag after He must be x would be isn't he? I write "would be" because it's hard to imagine an AmE-speaker ever using a question tag in this case.

 

[man of manners]

Very few Americans would ever say mustn't he. In AmE, the typical question tag after He must be x would be isn't he?

The British don't tend to change the modal in the question tag even though it changes the meaning but the Americans do.
Do you agree on these ones?: "He must have played well, didn't he?" "he must have been clever, wasn't he?"

 

[GoesStation]

The British don't tend to change the modal in the question tag even though it changes the meaning but the Americans do.
Do you agree on these ones?: "He must have played well, didn't he?" "he must have been clever, wasn't he?"

As I said in post #24, I think few Americans would utter those sentences. The natural, grammatical tag is Right?