[Grammar] recommended that he gives up

[emp0608]

Hi folks,

In the Learning English corner of BBC World Service, the sentence "The doctor recommended (that) he gives up smoking." is shown as a less formal expression of "The doctor recommended that he give up smoking." What do you folks think about this?

 

[GoesStation]

In American English, you'd use the subjunctive. British English-speakers use it less, hence the BBC's explanation.

 

[Tdol]

In British English, we tend not to use the present subjunctive much except in a few fossilised phrases and in very formal usage. This is why they describe it as a less formal usage. In BrE, you may hear it in formal speeches, but we don't use it much elsewhere.

 

[emsr2d2]

Notwithstanding Tdol's comments in post #4, I'd use "give" in your original sentence.

 

[Tdol]

Typo.

Thanks. It was late at night and I was channelling my inner-Piscean. :-D

 

[Tdol]

Notwithstanding Tdol's comments in post #4, I'd use "give" in your original sentence.

We do often avoid the issue by using should, but I wouldn't use give there. I am pretty present subjunctive agnostic, though.

 

[Phaedrus]

We do often avoid the issue by using should, but I wouldn't use give there.

Yes, wouldn't British speakers normally say "The doctor recommended that he should give up smoking"? I believe the situation is the same with clauses following "lest". Whereas in American English we would say "The doctor recommended that he give up smoking lest his health deteriorate", my understanding is that British speakers would instead say "The doctor recommended that he should give up smoking lest his health should deteriorate."

 

[emsr2d2]

I know it's fairly common but it really jars with me when I hear the combination of "recommend" and "should". I use either "recommend that ... bare infinitive (subjunctive)" or "said that ... should + bare infinitive".

 

[jutfrank]

I know it's fairly common but it really jars with me when I hear the combination of "recommend" and "should". I use either "recommend that ... bare infinitive (subjunctive)" or "said that ... should + bare infinitive".

It doesn't exactly jar with me to hear should but I certainly wouldn't use it. I consider it a bit stuffy in standard neutral BrE. I'm guessing that the subjunctive form is probably a lot more natural than some sources make out. I'm not totally sure where the evidence to support the idea that it's not common in BrE comes from.

 

[GoesStation]

I'm guessing that the subjunctive form is probably a lot more natural than some sources make out. I'm not totally sure where the evidence to support the idea that it's not common in BrE comes from.

I developed it from observation: reading The Economist, listening to the BBC, and watching British television.