Role of English language experts in the general usage

[vikky7695]

I always wonder if there are any English Language experts who can step in to resolve general issues like : 'is until inclusive or exclusive', 'does until the date include the date as well' etc.

What is the point in people discussing all these trivial issues if there are certain experts who can lay down the guidelines that will help in resolving such trivial issues, and maybe such trivial issues don't come up in first place

 

[Piscean]

There are no such experts. For some four centuries certain people have produced books claiming to say what is correct and acceptable English and what is not. Some have been influential for a time among the minority of English speakers who received a formal education. However, there is no recognised authority for the English language.

 

[vikky7695]

Sir,
I would like to know your understanding on the issue of usage of until.

if someone says I will be out of office until Thursday, when is she going to be back in office, on Thursday itself or on Friday?

 

[jutfrank]

The idea of 'until' is that there is a period of time that stretches up to an end point in time. Since points are zero-dimensional, they can be neither included nor excluded. Exactly when this end point is interpreted to be will depend on the specific context.

You have until Friday to finish the assignment.

In this context, the speaker has in mind a particular deadline (a point in time). Whether he means that this point is at midnight, or at 9.00 am or midday, or 5.30 pm, we can't know from the sentence alone. This is where interpretation comes in.

 

[vikky7695]

The idea of 'until' is that there is a period of time that stretches up to an end point in time. Since points are zero-dimensional, they can be neither included nor excluded. Exactly when this end point is interpreted to be will depend on the specific context.

You have until Friday to finish the assignment.

In this context, the speaker has in mind a particular deadline (a point in time). Whether he means that this point is at midnight, or at 9.00 am or midday, or 5.30 pm, we can't know from the sentence alone. This is where interpretation comes in.

So if we say until Friday in this case, could that mean by end of day Thursday itself i.e. Thursday 11:59 pm : 59 seconds ?
if we submit it anytime on Friday, will it be considered late submission?

 

[vikky7695]

Or like when someone says they are out of office until Wednesday, are they going to be back on Wednesday itself or on Thursday, meaning Wednesday will still be a holiday for the person.

 

[Piscean]

So if we say until Friday in this case, could that mean by end of day Thursday itself i.e. Thursday 11:59 pm : 59 seconds ?

No.

if we submit it anytime on Friday, will it be considered late submission?

Only if it is submitted after a specified time on Friday.

 

[Piscean]

Or like when someone says they are out of office until Wednesday,

They will be back in the office on Wednesday.

 

[PeterCW]

So if we say until Friday in this case, could that mean by end of day Thursday itself i.e. Thursday 11:59 pm : 59 seconds ?
if we submit it anytime on Friday, will it be considered late submission?

To submit a document "by Friday" or saying that you have "until Friday" can either mean I want it on my desk when I arrive or any time before I go home. In business you would assume the former unless a time was specified.

 

[Tarheel]

If you would tell me you are going to be out until Thursday I would expect you to be back on Thursday.

 

[SoothingDave]

Sir,
I would like to know your understanding on the issue of usage of until.

if someone says I will be out of office until Thursday, when is she going to be back in office, on Thursday itself or on Friday?

They will be back on Thursday. You're defining the period of time when you will be out. That period of time ends on Thursday.

The intent of the message is to let people know when you are available again.

 

[Zubairsk]

I always wonder if there are any English Language experts who can step in to resolve general issues like : 'is until inclusive or exclusive', 'does until the date include the date as well' etc.

What is the point in people discussing all these trivial issues if there are certain experts who can lay down the guidelines that will help in resolving such trivial issues, and maybe such trivial issues don't come up in first place

It's a great point you've raised! Language can often be ambiguous, and nuances like whether "until" is inclusive or exclusive can lead to confusion. Having language experts available to clarify these kinds of questions would certainly help establish clearer guidelines and minimize misunderstandings.

However, language is also very much shaped by usage and context, which is why discussions around these issues arise. What seems trivial to one person might be significant to another, depending on their perspective or the context in which they're using the language.

While it would be helpful to have definitive answers from experts, the nature of language is that it evolves, and interpretations can vary across different regions and communities. This can make it difficult to establish universally accepted rules. In the meantime, forums like this one can serve as a valuable space for people to share their thoughts and seek clarification, even on seemingly minor points. Having a collective dialogue can enrich our understanding and appreciation of the language.

 

[Rover_KE]

Welcome to the forum, @Zubairsk.

Please read this extract from the forum rules:

"If you are not a teacher, you will need to state that clearly in your posts."

 

[Tarheel]

Well, "expert" is a relative term.

It seems that people often complicate things unnecessarily, and they see confusion where there is none.

Often something is easily resolved just by asking a question.

Often a sentence that seems to be ambiguous is in real life not ambiguous at all -- either that or the confusion is only temporary. For example, in speech a person can always ask for clarification. If you see a sentence in print it is never going to be by itself. (That would make no sense.) Context will tell you most of the time what a writer meant by a sentence.