[Grammar] someone did something even though I didn't want him to

[denismurs]

Hello,

I need a help with these constructions:

He has had his T-shirt changed because he got chocolate on it.

Does this grammatical construction stand for that somebody have done something even though he didn't want to do it?

And may I use such kind of construcction:

I have to have my grassplot cut today because it's about time I had to do it.

To express the same situation that somebody (in this case me) have done something even though he didn't want to do it?

Denis.

 

[MikeNewYork]

There is no evidence in either case that the subject did not want the action to happen.

 

[denismurs]

There is no evidence in either case that the subject did not want the action to happen.

But still I think that it's a common construction in British English to express that somebody has done something without wanting it.
Another sample could be: "He had to have a kindey removed."

 

[emsr2d2]

That doesn't suggest he didn't want it either. In that example, it was a medical requirement. If there was something seriously wrong with his kidney, then he would want to have it removed!

Note the correct spelling of kidn​ey.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I don't think this has anything to do with BrE.

 

[denismurs]

I'm just preparing for the Cambridge FCE and in the coursebook recommended by British Council the authers claim:

- to say that someone else did something for you because you wanted them to. He had his hair cut specially for the interview.
- to say that someone else did something to you even though you didn't them want to. She said she had had her necklace stolen.

I think acccording to the coursebook they imply this sense. At the same time I understand that there is no any written evidence if the person wanted or not it to be done. So I needed to know your opinion about these constructions.

 

[Raymott]

There's nothing in the grammar that indicates whether the action is wanted or not.
I assume you've either misread, misunderstood, or misquoted what was written.

 

[Raymott]

- to say that someone else did something to you even though you didn't them want to. She said she had had her necklace stolen.
.

I don't understand your answer, Piscean.
She said she had had her necklace stolen. - You imply that the grammar indicates that she didn't want it to happen.
She said she had had her necklace polished. Does this mean that she didn't want it to happen? The grammar is the same.

 

[denismurs]

The grammar is the same.

I think it's the matter of the point of view. For example now I live in Spain and in each spanish province the Spanish have their typical phrases with latent meaning which doesn't exist in others provinces or countries.

For example: To be Celestina. In Spain means to be a pander, whereas for not-native speaker this expression doesn't seem to have any latent meaning or makes no sense.

 

[Raymott]

Yes, all this may be true. But I was responding to the OP who claimed that it was the grammar that decided whether the thing was wanted or not. It isn't. There's nothing unusual about AusE in this regard.
If you read the first few posts again, you might understand my point. But I'm happy to explain it again if you think it necessary.
But to repeat: The grammar, especially the use of the tenses, as the OP claims, doesn't determine whether a certain event was wanted or not.

 

[Raymott]

I think it's the matter of the point of view.

I think you're wrong. The verb tense as you've illustrated has no bearing on whether someone wants something or not.
Three native speakers have told you so. Of course, you may continue to hold your own point of view.