spread

[jiang]

Dear teachers,


Mary often stays up, reviewing her lessons, books_________ all over the desk.

a. spread b. spreading

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

 

[Raymott]

Dear teachers,


Mary often stays up, reviewing her lessons, books_________ all over the desk.

a. spread b. spreading

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

Either is possible, but "spread" is probably expected - it would be more common.
However, the books could be spread over the desk, or they could be spreading over the desk.

 

[jiang]

Hi, Raymott,

This is independent element. Is that right?

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

 

[jiang]

Dear Raymott,

I think this is independent element. If it is, shouldn't it be "books being spread all over the desk"?

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

 

[Raymott]

Dear Raymott,

I think this is independent element. If it is, shouldn't it be "books being spread all over the desk"?

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

I don't know what you mean by "independent element".
spread: Someone has spread the books over the desk, hence they are spread.
spreading: Someone has put a lot of books on the desk, and they are spreading [themselves] over the desk.

 

[jiang]

Dear Raymott,

Thank you very much for your explanation. This is what I mean as (actually what I was taught as) "independent element":
The girl was walking along the street, her dog following her.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

 

[Raymott]

Dear Raymott,

Thank you very much for your explanation. This is what I mean as (actually what I was taught as) "independent element":
The girl was walking along the street, her dog following her.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

Yes, but I'm not sure what usefulness that term has. Anyway, it's not generally known. And calling it an independent element doesn't indicate whether 'spread' or 'spreading' is right - or anything else that I can see. (Note that my clause after the dash is also an independent element, as is this parenthesis. What does it actually define?)

 

[jiang]

Dear Raymott,

Thank you very much for your explanation. As far as I know both "spread" and "spreading" are correct in this sentence it is fine.
I think when I asked the question whether it should be "being spread" I was thinking of independent element. Now I think you are right independent element doesn't indicate anything.

Jiang

 

[billmcd]

Dear teachers,


Mary often stays up, reviewing her lessons, books_________ all over the desk.

a. spread b. spreading

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

Sorry, but "spreading" is a stretch (no pun intended) for me in the context posted, especially "....and they are spreading [themselves] over the desk". Scary, don't you think?

 

[emsr2d2]

Sorry, but "spreading" is a stretch (no pun intended) for me in the context posted, especially "....and they are spreading [themselves] over the desk". Scary, don't you think?

I agree. "Books spreading over the desk" sounds as if they are in the process of moving across the desk, covering a wider and wider area. As far as I know, books don't move of their own volition so I agree that "spreading" is a stretch.

Mary often stays up, reviewing her lessons, and while she does this, her books are spread all over the desk.

 

[jiang]

Hi emsr2d2,

Thank you very much for your explanation. I think what you mean is "spreading" is not correct. Is that right?

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

 

[Raymott]

Sorry, but "spreading" is a stretch (no pun intended) for me in the context posted, especially "....and they are spreading [themselves] over the desk". Scary, don't you think?

"Spreading [themselves]" is for explanatory purposes to a non English speaker. They spread over the desk because of the instability of books piling up, the effects of gravity, etc. No, books do not have volition. The point is that Mary has not spread them over the desk. She has piled them into unstable piles, and the books spread over the desk. If Mary did not intend this to happen, it's probably not right to sat that Mary spread the books over the desk. So, "spread" is intransitive (which is the simple point I was making with "themselves".
This is similar to how (also non-volitional) leaves spread over the ground in autumn. "The leaves fall off the trees, spreading over the ground." There's no human agent here. They are also "spreading themselves" over the ground. I don't find that concept scary at all.

 

[emsr2d2]

Hi emsr2d2,

Thank you very much for your explanation. I think what you mean is "spreading" is not correct. Is that right?

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thank you in advance.

Jiang

No, I did not mean to say "spreading". I agreed with a previous poster that "spreading" is not the natural word here.

"Her books are spread all over the desk" is an entirely grammatical, natural English sentence.

 

[billmcd]

"Spreading [themselves]" is for explanatory purposes to a non English speaker. They spread over the desk because of the instability of books piling up, the effects of gravity, etc. No, books do not have volition. The point is that Mary has not spread them over the desk. She has piled them into unstable piles, and the books spread over the desk. If Mary did not intend this to happen, it's probably not right to sat that Mary spread the books over the desk. So, "spread" is intransitive (which is the simple point I was making with "themselves".
This is similar to how (also non-volitional) leaves spread over the ground in autumn. "The leaves fall off the trees, spreading over the ground." There's no human agent here. They are also "spreading themselves" over the ground. I don't find that concept scary at all.

"The point is that Mary has not spread them over the desk. She has piled them into unstable piles, and the books spread over the desk." Well, as is the case with many posts in this forum, context would help or "one would have to be there to provide a more definitive response". But I would prefer to infer that Mary, because of the late hour or simply her untidy habit or both, she has been very careless in placement of the books.

 

[Raymott]

"The point is that Mary has not spread them over the desk. She has piled them into unstable piles, and the books spread over the desk." Well, as is the case with many posts in this forum, context would help or "one would have to be there to provide a more definitive response". But I would prefer to infer that Mary, because of the late hour or simply her untidy habit or both, she has been very careless in placement of the books.

Yes, I agree. Since neither of us was there, we can't say whether Mary spread them or they spread by accident. Hence, we cannot say that "spreading" is the wrong answer. In my first reply, I did point out that "spread" was probably expected (for example, if you or ems was marking).
You would "prefer to infer". But when the question is, "Are they both right?", or "Couldn't 'spreading' also be right?", as I think we would agree applies here, I would prefer not to make inferences beyond what the question states.
We agree that 'spread' is the "most correct answer", if you like.

 

[5jj]

We agree that 'spread' is the "most correct answer", if you like.

I don't, because I think both are correct. 'Spread' is more likely, in my opinion; that doesn't make it more correct.

 

[billmcd]

Where are the COCA numbers/percentages when we need them?