the car's engine/the education's value

Vladv1

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A native speaker told me that "In conversational informal speech you use Saxon genitive for everything, regardless of whether it is animate or has anything to do with human activity.The rock's color. The river's sound. The bird's song. The wall's color The car's engine The shoe's sole The game's object". Does this spoken pattern apply only to objects and games, but not to abstract concepts? We would not say even in conversational English "The education's value", would we? Please expand.
 
A native speaker told me that "In conversational informal speech you use Saxon genitive for everything, regardless of whether it is animate or has anything to do with human activity.The rock's color. The river's sound. The bird's song. The wall's color The car's engine The shoe's sole The game's object".

Not right. Bad advice.

Does this spoken pattern apply only to objects and games, but not to abstract concepts?

No.

We would not say even in conversational English"The education's value", would we?

No, we wouldn't.

Please expand.

I'll guess there are several threads about this in the forum archives. Could we check those first?
 
A native speaker told me that "In conversational informal speech you use Saxon genitive for everything, regardless of whether it is animate or has anything to do with human activity.The rock's color. The river's sound. The bird's song. The wall's color The car's engine The shoe's sole The game's object".

These are all acceptable in casual spoken AmE. Prescriptivists will likely wail and bemoan with much gnashing of teeth its use with inanimate objects, particularly in formal written English, but it's common in informal speech.

Regardless, it's a stylistic guide/norm than an actual grammatical rule. There are cases where the possession via the preposition 'of' does sound better than via apostrophe s. Such cases are subjective, and also depend on context and structure.

Something like "Education's value is the ability for personal growth" is tolerable (to me) for conversation, but with something like "He believes in education's value", I'd prefer him to believe in the value of education instead. It just sounds better, even as casual conversation.

Other cases to avoid the genitive possessive is with location, because it's potentially confusing.
He's the manager of a restaurant in our town reads better than He's a restaurant's manager in our town.

Certain titles work better with 'of'. You'll frequently hear "Mexico's President" on US news networks but never "The United States's President. That's always expressed as "President of the United States" or "US President" The first is awkward to say.
 
These are all acceptable in casual spoken AmE. Prescriptivists will likely wail and bemoan with much gnashing of teeth its use with inanimate objects, particularly in formal written English, but it's common in informal speech.
I am, admittedly, a bit of a prescriptivist but that's not why I disagree with the usage. It's clearly different in AmE but in BrE, even in informal speech, it's rarely used. You will not hear "the rock's colour", "the shoe's sole" or "the wall's colour". Those would be "the colour of the rock", "the sole of the shoe" or the "shoe sole", and "the colour of the wall" or "the wall colour".

I'd expect to hear "the bird's song" when referring to a specific bird or specific species but of course this is not an inanimate object!
 
I'm sure this has nothing to do with American English.
 
I'm sure this has nothing to do with American English.
Do you say that because you agree that it's used in BrE as well, or are you saying that you don't think it's used in informal AmE?
 
Do you say that because you agree that it's used in BrE as well, or are you saying that you don't think it's used in informal AmE?

I'm saying that if we disagree, it's not to do with which variety or dialect we speak. It's something universal about the English language.
 
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