The present perfect or simple past

[Rachel Adams]

Hello.

I have completed an exercise thinking about ''the rule'' according to which we can use either the present perfect or the simple past depending on what we wish to focus on. The past event or the present relevance. I would be grateful if you corrected my sentences. My answers are in bold. The exercise is from the book A Practical English Grammar by Thomson.

1. You (lock) the door before you left the house? did you lock/have you locked?
2.I (write) the letter but I can't find a stamp. I wrote/have written.

3. Here are your shoes; I just (clean) them. Have just cleaned them.

4. He just (go) out. Has just gone out.

5.We (miss) the bus. Now we'll have to walk. Have missed/missed.
In my humble opinion, in all these sentences present perfect is a better option.

 

[J&K Tutoring]

Not necessarily!
A. In #3 and #4 you did not include an example of simple past.
B. In #1, 'Have you locked the door before you left the house?' would mean, Is this a thing you have done in the past on another occasion? It's similar to sentences that begin, 'Have you ever...' Simple past is better here, because we only want to know about this single instance.
C. It sounds better if verbs agree in tense where possible, so #2 is better with present perfect: I have written; I can find.
D. #3 is hard to be sure, as we don't know what is meant by just. Is cleaning the only thing you did (past is better) or did you clean them in a very recent time period (present perfect better)?
E. #4 would be fine either way, IMO.
F. in #5, I do prefer present perfect, as it's closer to the future "...will have to walk".

 

[Rachel Adams]

Not necessarily!
A. In #3 and #4 you did not include an example of simple past. I thought only the present perfect works with ''just.''
B. In #1, 'Have you locked the door before you left the house?' would mean, Is this a thing you have done in the past on another occasion? It's similar to sentences that begin, 'Have you ever...' Simple past is better here, because we only want to know about this single instance. Oh, interesting. Is it like ''do you always lock the door before you go?''
C. It sounds better if verbs agree in tense where possible, so #2 is better with present perfect: I have written; I can find.
D. #3 is hard to be sure, as we don't know what is meant by just. Is cleaning the only thing you did (past is better) or did you clean them in a very recent time period (present perfect better)?
E. #4 would be fine either way, IMO.
F. in #5, I do prefer present perfect, as it's closer to the future "...will have to walk".

D. #3 is hard to be sure, as we don't know what is meant by just. Is cleaning the only thing you did (past is better) or did you clean them in a very recent time period (present perfect better)?
Why doesn't my textbook explain this difference? I have never seen this explanation before.

 

[J&K Tutoring]

Look in your dictionary at the many, many ways we use the word just.

 

[Rachel Adams]

I don't remember which book I was using but I wrote down a grammar rule about the use of 'just' from it. It says ''Some time adverbs that connect the past to the present are often used with the present perfect: Don't disturb Amy. She's just gone to sleep. (not she just went to sleep). Have you seen Robert lately? (not did you see?)
That's why I used the present perfect with 'just'.

 

[Rachel Adams]

B. In #1, 'Have you locked the door before you left the house?' would mean, Is this a thing you have done in the past on another occasion? It's similar to sentences that begin, 'Have you ever...' Simple past is better here, because we only want to know about this single instance. Oh, interesting. Is it like ''do you always lock the door before you go?''

How do you find more examples on this?

 

[Rachel Adams]

One problem, Rachel, is that speakers of BrE and AmE differ in the ways they use the present perfect and past simple, so you'll never get a simple, single explanation of the differences that covers all the examples you'll find.

Another is that in real life speakers and writers have an enormous amount of context in their minds before they (usually unconsciously) select one of the two forms. Even then, the choice can be fairly arbitrary. I might say "I read with interest post #3", or I might say "I have read with interest post #3". I won't know until I've said it. Writers of grammars attempt to explain some of the things that may be going on in our minds when we view a situation, but they can't possibly cover everything.

The grammar of my language is not easy either but sometimes it seems there are no rules in English. I compared this example ''have you locked the door before you left?'' with the examples about which you said that either the present perfect or simple past can be used because we can choose to focus on the present or the past moment. Eg, I am sure I read or have read that he died in a plane crash. I didn't find any connection. I thought only the simple past was the right option. WhatJ&K Tutoring suggested is used in American English only?

 

[Rachel Adams]

No.

In I'm sure I read, the speaker is focussing on the past reading.
In I'm sure I've read, the speaker is focussing on the present relevance of the past reading.

In this example, as in other similar ones, there is no significant difference in meaning.

I was asking about this sentence ''have you locked the doot before you left.'' You corrected my example and removed 'have you locked'. I was asking why it was wrong. Would be grateful to you for an explanation.

And you advised against using ''I bought a car'' as a single statement. If I change my examples in which either the present perfect or simple past can be used(I wrote/have written the letter but I can't find a stamp. We missed/have missed the bus. Now we'll have to walk) and remove the parts in bold, the single statements wouldn't sound natural, right? Just like 'I bought a car'' example.

 

[J&K Tutoring]

As Piscean said in post #2, it's not a rule. There is no rule for this. As I said, "It sounds better if verbs agree in tense where possible". That's a guideline, not a rule.

1. I am sure I read that he died in a plane crash. I know that, in the (perhaps recent) past, I read that he died. I am not mistaken about it.
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2. I am sure I have read that he died in a plane crash. I know that I have seen this- probably more than one time.


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[Rachel Adams]

As Piscean said in post #2, it's not a rule. There is no rule for this. As I said, "It sounds better if verbs agree in tense where possible". That's a guideline, not a rule.

1. I am sure I read that he died in a plane crash. I know that, in the (perhaps recent) past, I read that he died. I am not mistaken about it.
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2. I am sure I have read that he died in a plane crash. I know that I have seen this- probably more than one time.


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Yes, I got that. I was asking about something else. I was not asking about the two sentences in blue anymore. Of course you are not mistaken. I asked about this answer of yours: In #1, 'Have you locked the door before you left the house?' would mean, Is this a thing you have done in the past on another occasion? It's similar to sentences that begin, 'Have you ever...' Simple past is better here, because we only want to know about this single instance. Oh, interesting. Is it like ''do you always lock the door before you go?''
Piscean removed ''have locked''. You left it and added an interesting explanation. So I decided to ask if in British English ''Have you locked the door before you left'' would be understood the same way. (''Is this a thing you have done in the past on another occasion''?).

 

[abaka]

I certainly don't mean to disagree with the other answers above, but since it seems you are still floundering, I would explain it as follows:

(A) Did you lock the door before you left? "Before you left" indicates a definite time interval in the past, so a past tense is proper.

(B) Have you locked the door? This is a present statement, about a situation that exists now, so a present perfect is correct.

(C) Have you locked the door today? We are definitely in the present.

To ease confusion about the simple past and present perfect, remember that the present perfect is a present tense that indicates a present state of affairs. The simple past is a past tense that properly describes things that are no longer taking place.

Sentence (A) inquires whether the door was locked (by the person spoken to) back then. You might say it if the two of you came back and saw that someone had unlocked the door while you were away.

Sentence (B) inquires whether the door is locked now (because of something the person spoken to has done). You might say it if the two of you are hurrying to an engagement and are worried about leaving the door open.

 

[abaka]

Of course, but I think that in your example it's best not to omit the "ever".

 

[abaka]

It's possible, but I should never recommend it, especially to anyone learning English.

Peace.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Thank you all so much for your help. Yes, with 'ever' it was much easier for me to understand the difference. Thank you, abaka.

 

[Rachel Adams]

You give too many sentence in one thread . It's difficult sometimes to know which one you are asking about.
For me, "before you left" located the locking of the door clearly in the past. However, in post #3, J & K came up with a context in which the present perfect "have locked" would work.
The "the" in "I wrote/have written" the letter suggest that the letter has been referred to, and therefore the stand-alone sentences could work. Similarly, "the bus" tells us that the bus is known to both parties in this situation, and the stand-alone sentences culd work.

Each situation we consider has to be considered in terms of the situation itself, not just the tenses/aspects. The fact that a tense/aspect may not work in one situation does not mean that it won't work in another.

I was going to ask about this example before you posted your explanation. In this example "I have bought a pie on my way home''. Without your explanation I would use the simple past again in ''I have bought a pie'' and say ''I bought a pie.'' Now I will change the sentence, add the definite article use both tenses and say ''I have bought/bought the pie''. The pie has been referred to before.

 

[Rachel Adams]

I wanted to compare ''I bought a pie'' example with ''I bought a car''. Oh, I am sorry. I forgot to remove ''on my way home'', to make ''I bought a car'' and ''I bought a pie'' similar statements without context. I thought ''I bought a pie'' as a single statement woudn't work either just like ''I bought a car'' example.

 

[Rachel Adams]

Those sentences ''out of context'' as you said were taken from the book A Practical English Grammar. It is a great practice with the right teacher and forum of course. I messaged an admin and he promised to open the threads. Bad news for you .

 

[Tarheel]

What are you practicing?

 

[Rachel Adams]

English. Just like the rest of English learners on this English forum.