These cars are in bad condition

[Rachel Adams]

Hello.

This example is from the textbook ''English File'' by Christina Latham-Koenig.
Why isn't there an 'a' before 'condition'?
''These cars are in bad condition''.

 

[jutfrank]

The phrase is in bad condition. There's no need for an article.

 

[emsr2d2]

In that context, "condition" is uncountable.

See more here.

 

[Alexey86]

In that context, "condition" is uncountable.

See more here.

The Longman Dictionary and The Cambridge Dictionary give us the following examples:

"The house was in a terrible condition."
"They left the flat in a terrible condition - there was mess everywhere."

Moreover, we can find some examples of "a bad condition" here (https://ludwig.guru/s/in+a+bad+condition):

"In the long term, I think our economy is in a bad condition."
"The house has been in a bad condition for years..."
"The fact that property in a bad condition only attracts a very limited range of prospective buyers could offer one explanation."

What do you think about that?

 

[Yankee]

The Longman Dictionary and The Cambridge Dictionary give us the following examples:

"The house was in a terrible condition."
"They left the flat in a terrible condition - there was mess everywhere."

Moreover, we can find some examples of "a bad condition" here (https://ludwig.guru/s/in+a+bad+condition):

"In the long term, I think our economy is in a bad condition."
"The house has been in a bad condition for years..."
"The fact that property in a bad condition only attracts a very limited range of prospective buyers could offer one explanation."

What do you think about that?

First, each of your examples could have been used and I would prefer to be used without the indefinite article. But some abstract nouns e.g. condition, happiness, religion can work with it.

 

[jutfrank]

The Longman Dictionary and The Cambridge Dictionary give us the following examples:

"The house was in a terrible condition."
"They left the flat in a terrible condition - there was mess everywhere."

Moreover, we can find some examples of "a bad condition" here (https://ludwig.guru/s/in+a+bad+condition):

"In the long term, I think our economy is in a bad condition."
"The house has been in a bad condition for years..."
"The fact that property in a bad condition only attracts a very limited range of prospective buyers could offer one explanation."

What do you think about that?

In all of those examples, condition is being used countably. That's why the noun phrases have indefinite articles.

You can't do that with the sentence in the OP.

These cars are in bad conditions. :cross:

However, if there were just one car, both countable and uncountable uses would work, grammatically speaking:

This car is in bad condition. :tick:
This car is in a bad condition. :tick:

Can you sense what the subtle difference in meaning between these two utterances may be, Alexey86?

 

[Alexey86]

These cars are in bad conditions. :cross:

Can we say, "These cars are in a bad condition"?

Can you sense what the subtle difference in meaning between these two utterances may be, Alexey86?

Maybe "bad condition" is about the general state of the car that might look shabby and doesn't function properly, whereas "a bad condition" implies that the car has one particular problem out of many possible ones. But I'm still not sure how to distinguish these two states. Suppose my car has two problems: the engine stalls sometimes, and the brakes don't work very well. Is it "bad condition" or "a bad condition"?

 

[GoesStation]

Can we say, "These cars are in a bad condition"?



Maybe "bad condition" is about the general state of the car that might look shabby and doesn't function properly, whereas "a bad condition" implies that the car has one particular problem out of many possible ones. But I'm still not sure how to distinguish these two states. Suppose my car has two problems: the engine stalls sometimes, and the brakes don't work very well. Is it "bad condition" or "a bad condition"?

Only "bad condition" looks natural to my American eyes. The article looks wrong to me.

 

[jutfrank]

Can we say, "These cars are in a bad condition"?

Unfortunately, I think some people might say that, yes. I strongly recommend that you don't. To me it sounds awful.

Maybe "bad condition" is about the general state of the car that might look shabby and doesn't function properly

Yes.

whereas "a bad condition" implies that the car has one particular problem out of many possible ones.

Very possibly, yes.

But I'm still not sure how to distinguish these two states. Suppose my car has two problems: the engine stalls sometimes, and the brakes don't work very well. Is it "bad condition" or "a bad condition"?

You're starting to overthink this now. You don't have to count the problems. If you want to describe the general condition of the car, use in bad condition.

 

[Alexey86]

Unfortunately, I think some people might say that, yes. I strongly recommend that you don't. To me it sounds awful.

But what if each of the cars has the same particular problem out of many possible ones?

 

[GoesStation]

But what if each of the cars has the same particular problem out of many possible ones?

Then they're all in good condition except for their cracked windshields ("windscreens" in British English) or ​all in fair condition.

 

[Alexey86]

Only "bad condition" looks natural to my American eyes. The article looks wrong to me.

GoesStation, what do you think about the examples I found? Do they also look wrong to you? If not, would you please explain the difference?

 

[GoesStation]

GoesStation, what do you think about the examples I found? Do they also look wrong to you? If not, would you please explain the difference?

They all look wrong to me.

 

[Alexey86]

They all look wrong to me.

This is surprising, given that the sentences are taken from The Cambridge Dictionary, The New York times and The Guardian.

 

[Twist]

This is surprising, given that the sentences are taken from The Cambridge Dictionary, The New York times and The Guardian.

Perhaps GoesStation is taking the mickey.

 

[GoesStation]

This is surprising, given that the sentences are taken from The Cambridge Dictionary, The New York times and The Guardian.

Six of the seven quotations I can read there were apparently written by British or Indian authors. (The New York Times quotes the art and culture secretary of Bihar, India.) The seventh is from the July 26, 1941 issue of The New Yorker, a magazine which affected a Continental style in those days -- though it's possible in a bad condition was more common in American English at the time. They all look wrong -- or at least, foreign -- to my American eyes.