[Grammar] They are building new houses outside the town

[Venus.jam]

Hi,


Active: They are building new houses outside the town.


1. New houses are being built by them outside the town
2. New houses are being built outside the town by them.

Does the order matter in passive sentences like this one? I mean do we change the order of passive voice only for putting more emphasis or does it deal with the naturalness of the sentence as well.


I mean in the following example, it is told that number 1 is less natural than the second one.

1. Lots of cars are made by them in Korea.
2. Lots of cars are made in Korea by them.

Then how about the first example? Which one is more natural? or can we choose either of them depending on our emphasis?

 

[Rover_KE]

Venus.jam, is somebody forcing you to change perfectly natural active sentences into unnatural passive ones? If not, and you're just doing it as an academic exercise, forget it and spend your time doing something more productive.

Please read this excellent summary of occasions when the passive is appropriate:

When/if we use the passive, it is generally because:

- We don't know who the agent is, or the agent is not important:

Ruth Ellis was hanged in 1955. She was the last woman to be executed in Great Britain.

Here, the person who performed the execution is known to some (but not many) people, but he is unimportant. What is important is the hanging of this woman.

***

-We may wish not to place importance on the agent:

I'm afraid your application for a loan has been declined.

Possibly the speaker rejected it himself, but would rather not admit this.

***
- In academic writing, especially in scientific writing, the passive gives an impersonal, objective impression.

The passive is rarely used in informal conversation.

People who use the passive for one of these, or for some other reason, generally produce the sentences in the passive. They do not produce an active sentence and then transform it. I loathe transformation exercises in coursebooks. They often result in very unnatural sentences.

(Piscean)

 

[Venus.jam]

Venus.jam, is somebody forcing you to change perfectly natural active sentences into unnatural passive ones? If not, and you're just doing it as an academic exercise, forget it and spend your time doing something more productive.

Please read this excellent summary of occasions when the passive is appropriate:

Dear teacher,

I do agree with you. But, you know in university course books here passive voice exercises are like the ones in my posts and students are required to change nice active sentences into awkward and unnatural passive ones in order to learn passive voice which are as you said are pointless most of the time.
Can passive voice be taught in another way rather than asking the students to change active sentences into passive ones? I'd really appreciate if all respectable teachers here share their ideas on how to teach passive voice in a more beneficial way.

 

[Venus.jam]

Venus.jam, is somebody forcing you to change perfectly natural active sentences into unnatural passive ones? If not, and you're just doing it as an academic exercise, forget it and spend your time doing something more productive.

Please read this excellent summary of occasions when the passive is appropriate:

Dear teacher,

I do agree with you. But, you know in university course books passive voice exercises are like the ones in my posts and students are required to change nice active sentences into awkward and unnatural passive ones which are as you said are pointless most of the time.
I'd really appreciate if all respectable teachers here share their ideas on how to teach passive voice in a more beneficial way.

 

[Raymott]

I'd really appreciate if all respectable teachers here share their ideas on how to teach passive voice in a more beneficial way.

You seem to know how to do it. By just drop the "by X" phrase where the resulting sentence is unnatural. "New houses are being built outside the town."
I'm assuming you have some idea of what's not natural, since you ask about teaching it.

 

[Venus.jam]

You seem to know how to do it. By just drop the "by X" phrase where the resulting sentence is unnatural. "New houses are being built outside the town."
I'm assuming you have some idea of what's not natural, since you ask about teaching it.

Yes, absolutely! I do have some idea of teaching it! But, I don't think that my idea is sufficient in this case, since I'm not a native English speaker. In some cases, some sentences sounds unnatural to me, but I'd like to ask a native speaker to confirm it as well. My job is teaching but I do believe in consulting with other native teachers in order to know their ideas as well. As you know, native speakers can judge the naturalness of a text better than non-native speakers.
Of course, I also know that what has resulted in positive outcomes in other teachers' classes and in other contexts may not be beneficial for me and in the context where I teach and vice versa. Anyway, thanks for your idea.
Moreover, as you see, you were the only answerer who referred to the way through which I can change the unnatural passive form into a natural one by simply dropping "by them" here. So each person has his/her own point of view and I'm interested in becoming familiar with even subtle points in learning a language.


Regards,

 

[Venus.jam]

P.S. By the way, I wonder if it is correct to say "by just drop" or we should say "by just dropping" in your sentence?!

 

[Matthew Wai]

I think he means 'Just drop ...', an imperative.

 

[Raymott]

But, I don't think that my idea is sufficient in this case, since I'm not a native English speaker.

If a sentence made into passive has a "by me", or "by" any pronoun, it's probably not natural. Use the active voice.
I can't think of a case where "The house was built by him" is any better than "He built the house" or "It was he who built the house." or "He was the one who built the house."

 

[Matthew Wai]

How about 'The house was built by him rather than me'?

 

[Raymott]

How about 'The house was built by him rather than me'?

Terrible.
"I didn't build the house; he did."
"He built the house, not me." (Colloquial)

 

[Venus.jam]

It is not necessary to quote whole posts when you follow up on a question, Venus.jam. Often there is no need to quote at all but, if there is is, just quote the relevant words.

I wonder which quote you meant!

 

[Venus.jam]

If a sentence made into passive has a "by me", or "by" any pronoun, it's probably not natural. Use the active voice.
I can't think of a case where "The house was built by him" is any better than "He built the house" or "It was he who built the house." or "He was the one who built the house."

Also, as you mentioned in the previous post, we can simply drop "by+pronoun" to make it a natural sentence. "The house was built".

 

[Rover_KE]

I wonder which quote you meant!

Post #9. You quoted your own post #8 in its entirety, just to add a PS.

You could have added a PS to #8 by clicking on Edit Post.

 

[Venus.jam]

I think he means 'Just drop ...', an imperative.

So, "by" should be deleted in this case. Am I right?

 

[Venus.jam]

If you are referring to my post #2, I suggested that you drop 'by them'. If you are not, please let us know which post you are referring to.

No. I'n referring to post #7. "By just drop ...".