"Thou shalt not"

[Odessa Dawn]

​

In order to be really fluent in English, you can’t just learn modern English, you must also know a little bit of older, more poetic English. Not actual “Old English”, since that’s a whole other language entirely, but “older” English.

Here in downtown Columbus, there’s a church which advertises with the message: “Which part of ‘Thou shalt not‘ don’t you understand?” This slogan always makes me laugh, because, having studied languages, I’ve come to see how the slogan must be extremely confusing to most ESL speakers. The truth is that, for a lot of speakers, “Thou” and “shalt” are both unfamiliar. And the fact that by stringing them together in essentially the same structure as “You will not”, you end up creating a command– that’s even worse!
More: 10 Reasons Why English Is A Hard Language

Isn’t "Thou shalt not" Biblical English? It is not "Archaic English?" I have been told that "This is not an example of Old English."
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[emsr2d2]

Since the Bible wasn't written in English, it was only translated into English, I'm not sure we can genuinely call anything Biblical English.
I don't have time right now to look into what type of English used "thou shalt" but Wikipedia gives a good history of the Bible's various translations into English here. By looking at the dates and comparing them with the dates that different versions of English were being used, it should be possible to work it out.

Even native speakers might not realise they're using an old form of English sometimes. If you asked a standard Brit to tell you what "You will" is in an ancient English form, they would probably say "I have no idea!" But you can bet your boots that if you asked them to give you an example of one of the ten commandments in an old style of English, they would say "Thou shalt not kill" or similar. It's funny how we don't realise we're using another language sometimes when it's part of a well-known phrase or saying.

 

[Rover_KE]

Isn’t "Thou shalt not" Biblical English? It is not "Archaic English?" I have been told that "This is not an example of Old English."​

It's 'Early Modern English'.

Rover

 

[Tdol]

This is an example of real Old English:

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,

5 monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð
feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra

10 ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan. þæt wæs god cyning!
ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned,
geong in geardum, þone god sende
folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat

Text: Beowulf
Wikipedia on the poem: Beowulf

Old English is almost completely incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't studied it. You can get the odd word or phrase, but little more.

 

[Tdol]

And please scroll down for a translation of the same.









scroll more

















scroll more

Lo! the Spear-Danes’ glory through splendid achievements
The folk-kings’ former fame we have heard of,
How princes displayed then their prowess-in-battle.
Oft Scyld the Scefing from scathers in numbers
5
From many a people their mead-benches tore.
Since first he found him friendless and wretched,
The earl had had terror: comfort he got for it,
Waxed ’neath the welkin, world-honor gained,
Till all his neighbors o’er sea were compelled to
10
Bow to his bidding and bring him their tribute:
An excellent atheling! After was borne him
A son and heir, young in his dwelling,
Whom God-Father sent to solace the people.

How much of that did you get? ;-)

I have left the explanatory notes out, but they're still required.

Source: Beowulf: An Anglo-Saxon Epic Poem

 

[SoothingDave]

The King James Bible was so influential that much of the language from there is "stuck" in that form -- at least for use by Christians in their various churches that use English. English speakers who know the Lord's Prayer, know it as "Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name..."

Of course, they don't use "thy" and "thou" and "art" in everyday life.

 

[Tdol]

In BrE, thee and thou were in use in some regions well into the 20th century- you can find them in DH Lawrence, for instance.

 

[emsr2d2]

In BrE, thee and thou were in use in some regions well into the 20th century- you can find them in DH Lawrence, for instance.

My father's mother, who was Wiltshire born and bred, used "thee" until she died in 1989. It's very common in that dialect although I imagine it's disappearing fast as people move around the country so much. When my grandmother spoke to other people who were lifelong residents of that Wiltshire village, I could barely understand what they were saying.

 

[Tdol]

It does still survive, but mostly among older dialect users- it's on its way out apart from Biblical, literary and other texts.