to drive north vs to live up north

[Alexey86]

a) I'm driving north.
b) I'm driving up north.
c) I live up north.
d) I live [STRIKE]north [/STRIKE]in the north.

Questions:
1. Do I understand correctly that I live north is wrong because north is only a direction, while up north can be both a direction and a region?
2. Is the north/up north distinction also true for south/down south?
3. What about back east and out west? Are they only directions, or can they also be regions? (I live out west.)

 

[GoesStation]

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Back East and out West are locations, not directions. Their meaning varies depending on where the speaker is: from here in Ohio Texas, or at least the western portion of it, is "out West". A Californian wouldn't say that because Texas is east of California.

A Californian asked me where I was from once when I was visiting Los Angeles. When I said "Ohio", he said "Oh. I haven't been to the East Coast in years." The statement made sense to him because I'm so much closer to the East Coast than he was, but it was a non sequitur to me: what does being in Ohio have to do with being on the East Coast, which is five hundred miles away?

 

[Alexey86]

3. Back east and out west are locations, not directions.

Would they be locations if I said I'm driving out west/I'm driving back east?

 

[GoesStation]

Would they be locations if I said I'm driving out West/I'm driving back East?

It would be more natural to say I'm going out West/I'm going back East because when it's transitive, "driving" is typically associated with a direction, a speed, or a manner of driving. With "going", they're both fine. They're okay with driving, but they'd be better with more context: I'm driving out West for Thanksgiving, for example.

 

[jutfrank]

Would they be locations if I said I'm driving out west/I'm driving back east?

It sounds like you're trying to use directions there, not locations. Right?

 

[Alexey86]

It sounds like you're trying to use directions there, not locations. Right?

Right.

 

[GoesStation]

It sounds like you're trying to use directions there, not locations. Right?

Right.

As I said, back East and out West are locations, not directions. They're unusual in that they can only be used when you're located far away from them. You can't say you're going back East if you're in Missouri, for example, because it's next door to one of the states that "back East" comprises.

 

[Alexey86]

It would be more natural to say I'm going out West/I'm going back East because when it's transitive, "driving" is typically associated with a direction, a speed, or a manner of driving. With "going", they're both fine. They're okay with driving, but they'd be better with more context: I'm driving out West for Thanksgiving, for example.

Would it be better to insert the preposition to I want to combine drive or, say, flight with out West/back East?

 

[GoesStation]

Would it be better to insert the preposition to I want to combine drive or, say, flight with out West/back East?

It's better to include a complete sample sentence for this kind of question, Alexey. If you're asking whether I'm flying to back East is a better sentence, no, it isn't. It's incorrect. Remove "to" and the sentence is correct and natural — provided it's written from an American location where "back East" is far away and to the east.

I've been referring to American English in these posts. I don't know whether the expressions are used in any other varieties.

 

[PeterCW]

It's better to include a complete sample sentence for this kind of question, Alexey. If you're asking whether I'm flying to back East is a better sentence, no, it isn't. It's incorrect. Remove "to" and the sentence is correct and natural — provided it's written from an American location where "back East" is far away and to the east.

I've been referring to American English in these posts. I don't know whether the expressions are used in any other varieties.

The geography of the island of Britain means that we don't have the same east/west distinction as in America.

 

[Alexey86]

Just to clarify, I live out West/back East would be OK in American English, right?

And one more question: Is there any difference in meaning between I live up north, I live up in the north and I live in the north?

 

[Tarheel]

I would expect something more specific.

Ron: Where are you from?
Bob: California. Palo Alto to be exact.

 

[Tarheel]

Another possibility.

Ron: Where are you from?
Bob: Canada.
Ron: Really? You don't have an accent.
Bob: I hear that all the time.

:-D

 

[GoesStation]

Just to clarify, I live out West/back East would be OK in American English, right?

Provided you are far from home when you say it, yes. If you're at my house in Ohio, you can say "I live out West." "Back East" isn't possible here. If I'm in California, I could say "I live back East". (I wouldn't though; I'd say "I live in Ohio".)

And one more question: Is there any difference in meaning between I live up North, I live up in the North and I live in the North?

I live up North: I live north of here. I live [up] in the North: I live in the northern part of the geographical area that's appropriate to the context. This could be a city, state, province, or country. Including "up" means I'm emphasizing the distance from here, but it could still be the northern part of my city or state.

 

[Alexey86]

I live up North: I live north of here.

I live north is wrong, while I live north of here is correct. So, adding of here turns it into a location, right?

 

[GoesStation]

I live north is wrong, while I live north of here is correct. So, adding of here turns it into a location, right?

Yes. But it's very approximate.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Would they be locations if I said I'm driving out west/I'm driving back east?

You probably know this, but just to be sure:

In the US, we call going to the West Coast going out west and going to the East Coast going back east.

The reason is that Europeans and their descendants migrated from east to west. So even today, going west has a sense of going beyond and going east has a sense of returning — even if you've never been there.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Just to clarify, I live out West/back East would be OK in American English, right?

Yes, in the right context. If you're in the east when you're saying it, then yes, you can say you live out west. (And likewise, you can say back east as long as you're not in the east when you're saying it.)

And one more question: Is there any difference in meaning between I live up north, I live up in the north and I live in the north?

"I live up in the north" is least likely, and "I live up north" is most likely — again, assuming you're not up north when you say it.

It's starting to make sense, right?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

As I said, back East and out West are locations, not directions. They're unusual in that they can only be used when you're located far away from them. You can't say you're going back East if you're in Missouri, for example, because it's next door to one of the states that "back East" comprises.

My friends in Minnesota think the East Coast is back east and the West Coast is out west.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Would it be better to insert the preposition to I want to combine drive or, say, flight with out West/back East?

No. We'd never drive to back east or fly to out west.