[Grammar] "was a couple" or "were a couple"?

[firewell]

As in "there was a couple of passages I found difficult to understand" or "there were a couple of passages... etc"?

If both are valid, any nuance as to the meaning of each?

Thanks!

 

[2006]

As in "there was a couple of passages I found difficult to understand" :cross: or "there were a couple of passages... etc"? :tick:
There "couple" is plural, so use 'were'.
If both are valid, any nuance as to the meaning of each?

Thanks!

2006

 

[firewell]

Thanks for the response, but I'm not sure I understand. "Couple" is singular, "couples" would be plural, right? That's why I wondered if you should go with "there were couples", but "there was a couple"? I tried to google this (even though it's dangerous with English), and I'm getting more hits for "was a couple of" than "were a couple of".

So you're saying that even though "couple" is singular, you still need to use plural verbs with it?

 

[Kondorosi]

As in "there was a couple of passages I found difficult to understand" or "there were a couple of passages... etc"?

If both are valid, any nuance as to the meaning of each?

Thanks!

Both are correct. Notional versus NP head concord.

 

[Elemoi]

Look here: https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/intermediate/1644-there.html

 

[2006]

Thanks for the response, but I'm not sure I understand. "Couple" is singular, "couples" would be plural, right?
No, "couple" has two separate meanings. One meaning is singular and the other meaning is plural.
"couple" (singular)...a pair of something; for example, two people who are married or otherwise romantically linked. This meaning of "couple" has the plural form "couples".
My wife and I invited three other couples to our house for dinner.

"couple" (plural)...two, a few
There were a couple of passages I found difficult to understand.

2006

 

[Kondorosi]

2006

I know it works differently on the other side of the pond, but in BrE, when the subject consists of a unit noun (the head of a noun phrase which realizes the subject) followed by an 'of' prepositional complement, the verb in grammatical concord agrees in number with the head. 'Couples' is the plural form of 'couple'. 'couple is singular and so has to be the verb. You are talking about the notional value of couple. It has a plural sense, and it is taken into account in notional concord, another rule that may govern subject-verb agreement.

 

[2006]

I know it works differently on the other side of the pond, but in BrE, when the subject consists of a unit noun (the head of a noun phrase which realizes the subject) followed by an 'of' prepositional complement, the verb in grammatical concord agrees in number with the head. In the sentence in question, "of" is optional, and with or without "of" the meaning is the same.
'There were a (couple)(few) passages I found difficult to understand.'
'I have a (couple)(few) things I have to to do before I can go.'
'Couples' is the plural form of 'couple'. only when "couple" means 'a pair', as in a man and a woman.


'couple is singular and so has to be the verb. No, in the sentence in question "couple" means 'two' or a 'few', which is clearly plural. (more than one)

At least that's the view over here.

2006

 

[nuharani]

then which one is a couple refers to is it a unit (only one) use is or it is two as we look two persons in it. it is like parents, mom and dad.

 

[Kondorosi]

The number of a noun is manifested by its morphological form. Singularity is not a semantic attribute.

In "There (be) a couple of passages I found difficult to understand," 'of passages' needs to be there to complete the meaning of the unit noun. A couple of what? Peter and Viola are a lovely couple. This couple is not that couple.

 

[bhaisahab]

As in "there was a couple of passages I found difficult to understand" or "there were a couple of passages... etc"?

If both are valid, any nuance as to the meaning of each?

Thanks!

I know it works differently on the other side of the pond, but in BrE, when the subject consists of a unit noun (the head of a noun phrase which realizes the subject) followed by an 'of' prepositional complement, the verb in grammatical concord agrees in number with the head. 'Couples' is the plural form of 'couple'. 'couple is singular and so has to be the verb. You are talking about the notional value of couple. It has a plural sense, and it is taken into account in notional concord, another rule that may govern subject-verb agreement.

In BrE the sentence above should be: "There were a couple of passages..."

 

[sarat_106]

2006

I agree with 2006 though I have still some confusion about use of singular or plural verb with the word “couple”. I understand the use this way:- The word simply means: two as an unit when used to refer to two people who function socially as a unit, as in a married couple, so the word couple may take either a singular or a plural verb, depending on whether the members are considered individually or collectively as:
The couple were married last week. (treated as two individuals)
Every body has left but one couple is still on the dance floor (treated as single unit).
I think there is no dispute on this but the controversy is with reference use of the word in the form of a phrase a couple of which means: A few; several or some; not many (literally more than one). Basically it refers to inexactness, suggesting that the user of this phrase is indifferent to the precise number of items involved but which is certainly more than one. So it needs always a plural verb when used as subject or a referent to a pronoun acting as subject. See the examples some collected from web other from dictionary..
Here are a couple of good ideas to set the house in order. (from web site)
Well, there are a couple of ideas running around already, (do)
A couple of months are necessary to complete the work.
A couple of boys have enjoyed the best week ever (from web)

 

[Kondorosi]

In BrE the sentence above should be: "There were a couple of passages..."

a couple of = a lot of = many = adjectival idiom; it modifies the subject; 'passages' is the noun that the verb must agree with in number.
I was wrong. Sorry. I have no idea why I did not notice it in the first place. Bhai, your English is good, but you never explain things. You can't or you don't want to?

However, if 'couple' is regarded as having the same sense as 'couple' in "Peter and Viola (me and my wife) are a happy couple," both the grammatical and the notional concord may govern SV agreement. Both singular and plural are possible. I think that is what 2006 was trying to imply in his (her?) posts.

 

[bhaisahab]

a couple of = a lot of = many = adjectival idiom; it modifies the subject; 'passages' is the noun that the verb must agree with in number.
I was wrong. Sorry. I have no idea why I did not notice it in the first place. Bhai, your English is good, but you never explain things. You can't or you don't want to?

However, if 'couple' is regarded as having the same sense as 'couple' in "Peter and Viola (me and my wife) are a happy couple," both the grammatical and the notional concord may govern SV agreement. Both singular and plural are possible. I think that is what 2006 was trying to imply in his (her?) posts.

2006 had explained the use adequately. If I had not seen that you were claiming that there is a difference in BrE, I would not have posted. It was unnecessary for me to explain further.

 

[Kondorosi]

Do you agree with me now?

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/112656-couple-were-couple-2.html#post551678

 

[Kondorosi]

2006 had explained the use adequately. It was unnecessary for me to explain further.

I hope you do not mean this:

There "couple" is plural, so use were

It does not make any sense. 'a couple of' premodifies the simple subject. Probably 2006 meant it has plural sense. Plural is related to form, not content.

 

[bhaisahab]

I hope you do not mean this:



It does not make any sense. 'a couple of' premodifies the simple subject. Probably 2006 meant it has plural sense. Plural is related to form, not content.

Yes, I understood that he/she meant that it has plural sense.