[Grammar] Why is "I" last with "and" as in "My Dad and I"

[Iliaa]

Hello,

I've noticed that in certain contexts in English, the tendency is to leave the "I" to the end.

Say, when someone speaks he/she would say:

My dad and I went to the zoo.

Is this is done because it is impolite to put one self before others? Or is that because of grammatical reasons?

Can't we say:
I and dad?
Me and dad?


And why some people say:
Dad and myself went to the zoo?

Does this imply that says "dad and I" is wrong in the first place?

Thanks.

 

[bubbha]

Putting "I" last is convention; it has nothing to do with grammar. I'm not sure why, but I would venture that it probably has more to do with euphony than with politeness. "My wife and I" has a better-sounding rhythm than "I and my wife".

As for the choice of "I" or "me", that depends whether it's the subject or object. "They sent the package to my wife and I" is wrong.

 

[emsr2d2]

For the benefit of any learners who haven't yet been given this neat trick for deciding between "I" and "me", here it is:

Remove the other person from the equation and see if what is left is still grammatical.

My father and I went to the cinema.
[STRIKE]My father and[/STRIKE] I went to the cinema.
I went to the cinema. :tick:

My father and me went to the cinema.
[STRIKE]My father and[/STRIKE] me went to the cinema.
Me went to the cinema. :cross:

He sent it to my sister and me.
He sent it to [STRIKE]my sister and[/STRIKE] me.
He sent it to me. :tick:

He sent it to my sister and I.
He sent it to [STRIKE]my sister and[/STRIKE] I.
He sent it to I. :cross:

 

[GoesStation]

I agree with ems's analysis.

However, while learners, particularly those preparing for tests and examinations, should always use the correct forms, they should be aware that quite a few native speakers of British English say such things as Me and Paul went ..., Paul and me went ..., Paul and myself went ..., Mary came with Paul and I, Mary came with Paul and myself. So, you may hear it. It's still not acceptable in the standard language.

This is very important for learners to know. You'll find that huge numbers of Anglophones get this "wrong" far more often than they get it "right". I put right and wrong in quotes because it's hard to defend calling forms used by apparently large majorities of English speakers incorrect, even if they're illogical. Be that as it may, ESL learners should try to get the subject and object pronouns right even when native Anglophones don't.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Putting "I" last is convention; it has nothing to do with grammar. I'm not sure why, but I would venture that it probably has more to do with euphony than with politeness. "My wife and I" has a better-sounding rhythm than "I and my wife". . . .

That might just because you're used to hearing it that way, so hearing "I" first rings wrong.

I was taught that it's a matter of manners.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

. . . And why do some people say:
"Dad and myself went to the zoo"? Because they have bad grammar.

Does this imply that saying "Dad and I" is wrong in the first place? No. "Dad and I went to the zoo" is correct.

Thanks.

My friend John clutters his talk with big words, but he doesn't always know whether to use "I" or "me."

So to be safe, he uses myself instead. He doesn't realize that if he always said I or me, he'd only be wrong half the time. But by using myself in their places, he's always wrong!

Many English speakers do it. It's better to simply learn when to use which: I, me, or myself.