Why is the phonemic transcription of "the" /ði/ or /ðiː/ not /ðɪj/ although it's pronounced as [ðɪj] and there are phonemes /ɪ/ and /j/ in English?

[unknown todler]

"the" before vowels is pronounced as [ðɪj] (at least according to Wiktionary). You could expect that the phonemic transcription would be /ðɪj/ (because there are minimal pairs for each of those sounds), but it is just /ði/

 

[5jj]

[ðɪj] - note the square brackets enclosng the symbols - is the phonetic transcription of one of the main ways of uttering the srong form of word the when used before vowels.

/[ði/ - note the square brackets enclosng the symbols - is the phonemic transcription of the standard way of uttering the weak form of the word the when used before vowels.

The linking [j] is not normally used in phonemic tramscription.

 

[unknown todler]

That's unhelpful. I'm perfectly aware of the difference between phonetic and phonemic transcription. My questions is "why do dictionaries transcribe [ðɪj] as /ðiː/ or /ði/ when they could just transcribe it as /ðɪj/?" Also, there is one exception: CUBE dictionary transcribes it in almost the same was as I suggested

 

[5jj]

That's unhelpful.

Fine. I'll go off to repond to other questions.

 

[jutfrank]

That's unhelpful. I'm perfectly aware of the difference between phonetic and phonemic transcription.

Actually, 5jj's answer was very helpful, and accurate. We normally assume that people asking questions on this forum are not experts in phonology. If you're studying this area academically, you should have made that known.

My questions is "why do dictionaries transcribe [ðɪj] as /ðiː/ or /ði/ when they could just transcribe it as /ðɪj/?

We've already answered this:

The linking [j] is not normally used in phonemic transcription.

 

[emsr2d2]

That's unhelpful.

Please show a little more gratitude to people who actually answer your question.

I'm perfectly aware of the difference between phonetic and phonemic transcription. My questions question is "Why do dictionaries transcribe [ðɪj] as /ðiː/ or /ði/ when they could just transcribe it as /ðɪj/?" Also, there is one exception: CUBE dictionary transcribes it in almost the same was way as [that] I suggested

Please note my corrections above.

 

[unknown todler]

Actually, 5jj's answer was very helpful, and accurate.

The linking [j] is not normally used in phonemic tramscription.

But my question is "why is it not used?" Plus without [j], it would be /ðɪ/ not /ði/ or /ðiː/. So my questions wasn't answered at all and the 5jj's answer was unhelpful

 

[unknown todler]

Please show a little more gratitude to people who actually answer your question.

They didn't answer my question at all. See above

 

[jutfrank]

But my question is "why is it not used?"

Because the /j/ is used to show the intrusion on linking to the next word. In a dictionary, there is no next word—lexemes are listed individually and distinctly. By and large, lexicographers treat each word independently from all others.

Plus without [j], it would be /ðɪ/ not /ði/ or /ðiː/.

No, that's not right. Pronouncing the word with emphasis, for example, would produce a long /i:/ vowel.

 

[unknown todler]

Because the /j/ is used to show the intrusion on linking to the next word. In a dictionary, there is no next word—lexemes are listed individually and distinctly. By and large, lexicographers treat each word independently from all others.

CUBE dictionary includes /j/, though

No, that's not right. Pronouncing the word with emphasis, for example, would produce a long /i:/ vowel.

No, you're wrong. According to Wiktionary "the" before vowels (without emphasis) is realized as [ðɪj]. If we insist on removing [j] as suggested above, we will get [ðɪj] - [j] = [ðɪ]. Then this could be transcribe as /ðɪ/, but it's not. Dictionaries (apart from CUBE) use either /ði/ or /ðiː/

 

[jutfrank]

I don't understand what you're doing here. From the way you've worded your post #1, it appears to me you simply want to express an idea you have rather than ask us a proper question about whether what you're saying is reasonable.

 

[5jj]

I am closing this thread @unknown todler.

If you hope to stay a member here, please respond civilly to members who give up their free time to attempt to help you.

5jj
Moderator.