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Allen165

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"The autonomy of the organizations emanates from national law, with each state determining its extent."

What is the function of "with" in the above sentence? To specify? Is there a grammatical term for this function?

Thanks.
 
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"The autonomy of the organizations emanates from national law, with each state determining its extent."

What is the function of "with" in the above sentence? To specifiy? Is there a grammatical term for this function?

Thanks.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

(1) After checking my grammar books, I think that the following may be

correct:

(a) with each state determining its extent is an "adverbial

participial clause."

(b) It is introduced by "with," which some newer grammars classify

as a "subordinator," and older grammars continue to call a

"preposition." One of these older books adds:

"...the introductory preposition is the sign of subordination to the

principal verb."

(c) It appears that "with each state determining its extent" is an example

of accompanying circumstance.


***** NOT A TEACHER *****
 
***** NOT A TEACHER *****

(1) After checking my grammar books, I think that the following may be

correct:

(a) with each state determining its extent is an "adverbial

participial clause."

(b) It is introduced by "with," which some newer grammars classify

as a "subordinator," and older grammars continue to call a

"preposition." One of these older books adds:

"...the introductory preposition is the sign of subordination to the

principal verb."

(c) It appears that "with each state determining its extent" is an example

of accompanying circumstance.


***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Thank you very much for your efforts, Parser.
 
"The autonomy of the organizations emanates from national law, with each state determining its extent."

What is the function of "with" in the above sentence? To specify? Is there a grammatical term for this function?

Thanks.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

(1) I have found some more information.

(2) The famous grammarian Otto Jespersen (whose first language was

not English!!!) reminds us that the use of "with" in such sentences

"means virtually the same thing as having."

(a) His example:

She came the whole length of the immense room, with everyone

looking at her.

(i) I guess (guess!!!) your sentence could be reworded something like:

The autonomy emanates from national law, having each state determine its

extent.

(3) Our friend Bryan A. Garner seems to be rather unhappy with this kind

of construction.

(a) He likes: Jacobson/He being absent, the party was a bore.

(i) He calls this a nominative absolute. It is not grammatically linked to

the main sentence. The whole phrase adverbially modifies some verb.

(I guess he means that the above sentence is a short way to say:

Because/since Jacobson/He was absent, the party was a bore.)

(b) He does not like adding "with." He says that "With Jacobson

absent, the party was a bore" is not a nominative absolute. He calls it

an "objective absolute," presumably because it is the object of the

preposition "with." (A real nominative absolute always has the subject

in the nominative case. His example: He being absent, ...)



(c) And he really dislikes changing "He being absent...." to the

possessive "His being absent...."

(d) He also has this to say about "with."

(i) "With is increasingly being used as a quasi-conjunction [Is that

why Professor Quirk chooses to call it a subordinator?] to introduce a tag-

on idea at the end of the sentence. The sense is close to and." [Very

interesting!!!]

He then adds: "Avoid this sloppy construction."

He gives an example that does not please him.

It concerns Australian politics:

Labor has an edge on unemployment, with the Coalition considered

better able to handle the environment.

He suggests that it should read something like:

Labor has an edge on unemployment; the Coalition is considered

better able to handle the environment.

It is only my guess that he might suggest that your sentence read:

The autonomy emanates from national law; each state determines

its extent.

Personally, with all due respect to Mr. Garner, I prefer your

original sentence.

I guess the most interesting point is that this use of "with"

= and.

That is,

The autonomy of the organizations emanates from national law,

and each state determines its extent.

I think the sentence using "with" is better because it does not give

equal weight to both parts of the sentence, as does a compound

sentence with "and." You simply want to tell people that the

autonomy of the organizations emanates from national law PERIOD

(Then you add the extra information that each state determines its

extent. It is something like P.S.)

***** NOT A TEACHER *****
 
Parser, you are a walking encyclopaedia! Well done!

I would simply analyse 'with each state determining its extent.' as an adverbial of manner pointed at 'emanates', 'with' being here a preposition.

"The autonomy of the organizations emanates from national law, with each state determining its extent."

The autonomy emanates somehow. (somehow = with each state determining its (own) extent (of emanation of their autonomy).
 
***** NOT A TEACHER *****

(1) I have found some more information.

(2) The famous grammarian Otto Jespersen (whose first language was

not English!!!) reminds us that the use of "with" in such sentences

"means virtually the same thing as having."

(a) His example:

She came the whole length of the immense room, with everyone

looking at her.

(i) I guess (guess!!!) your sentence could be reworded something like:

The autonomy emanates from national law, having each state determine its

extent.

(3) Our friend Bryan A. Garner seems to be rather unhappy with this kind

of construction.

(a) He likes: Jacobson/He being absent, the party was a bore.

(i) He calls this a nominative absolute. It is not grammatically linked to

the main sentence. The whole phrase adverbially modifies some verb.

(I guess he means that the above sentence is a short way to say:

Because/since Jacobson/He was absent, the party was a bore.)

(b) He does not like adding "with." He says that "With Jacobson

absent, the party was a bore" is not a nominative absolute. He calls it

an "objective absolute," presumably because it is the object of the

preposition "with." (A real nominative absolute always has the subject

in the nominative case. His example: He being absent, ...)



(c) And he really dislikes changing "He being absent...." to the

possessive "His being absent...."

(d) He also has this to say about "with."

(i) "With is increasingly being used as a quasi-conjunction [Is that

why Professor Quirk chooses to call it a subordinator?] to introduce a tag-

on idea at the end of the sentence. The sense is close to and." [Very

interesting!!!]

He then adds: "Avoid this sloppy construction."

He gives an example that does not please him.

It concerns Australian politics:

Labor has an edge on unemployment, with the Coalition considered

better able to handle the environment.

He suggests that it should read something like:

Labor has an edge on unemployment; the Coalition is considered

better able to handle the environment.

It is only my guess that he might suggest that your sentence read:

The autonomy emanates from national law; each state determines

its extent.

Personally, with all due respect to Mr. Garner, I prefer your

original sentence.

I guess the most interesting point is that this use of "with"

= and.

That is,

The autonomy of the organizations emanates from national law,

and each state determines its extent.

I think the sentence using "with" is better because it does not give

equal weight to both parts of the sentence, as does a compound

sentence with "and." You simply want to tell people that the

autonomy of the organizations emanates from national law PERIOD

(Then you add the extra information that each state determines its

extent. It is something like P.S.)

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

I just saw your post. Wow! I'm not sure how to express my gratitude.

Thanks a thousand times!
 
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