"You and Me" or "You and I"

[Grumpy]

As any fule kno, the simple way to get the "you and I" vs "you and me" usage right in any particular context is to leave out the "you and" portion - and it becomes immediately obvious whether "you" or "I" is correct.

And don't get me going on the pernicious influence of many British teachers who ignore glaring errors in children's written work, on the premise that nothing must be done which might curb little Johnny's budding powers of self expression. That is why we are assailed daily by such gems as "could of", "should of"; "practice" used for "practise", and "infer" for "imply"; "fall off of.." and "for free". And so on. GAAAAAHHH!!!

Is it any wonder I'm grumpy?

 

[DerMajo]

That is what's so difficult about the English language I think. Lots of times you pronounce the words totally different than it is written.

In German language you always write the word as you say it or you say the word as it is written ... But that's the only easy thing about German

 

[emsr2d2]

Ya there must be an educational problem. Even we learned the right way in Germany in school in our English lessons.

I'm sure you were but what a lot of people fail to realise (or indeed accept in some cases) is that in the UK, we don't have English lessons. We are not taught our own language. In the UK, the first time most children are exposed to grammar is when they start to learn a foreign language. Learning a foreign language is not compulsory so those children who do not elect to study French, German or Spanish rarely have to deal with grammar at all. There are spelling tests in infant and junior schools but they usually concentrate on the spelling of individual and regularly mis-spelled words. They rarely include combinations of words.

 

[DerMajo]

I'm sure you were but what a lot of people fail to realise (or indeed accept in some cases) is that in the UK, we don't have English lessons. We are not taught our own language. In the UK, the first time most children are exposed to grammar is when they start to learn a foreign language. Learning a foreign language is not compulsory so those children who do not elect to study French, German or Spanish rarely have to deal with grammar at all. There are spelling tests in infant and junior schools but they usually concentrate on the spelling of individual and regularly mis-spelled words. They rarely include combinations of words.

I had no idea. In Germany we learn our language pretty intense in school (at least it was like this when I went to school). And I think that is a good thing.
I'm in Canada now and I'm also very thankful for all my English lessons in school. It did help me a lot here.

 

[panglossa]

That is why we are assailed daily by such gems as ... "practice" used for "practise"

Careful, Grumpy, our friends across the pond use only 'practice' as both noun and verb!

 

[panglossa]

But that's the only easy thing about German

Yes, it is true that that the only easy thing about German is!!

 

[MikeNewYork]

Careful, Grumpy, our friends across the pond use only 'practice' as both noun and verb!

Of course we do, "Practise" is not a word. <evil grin>

 

[Grumpy]

Careful, Grumpy, our friends across the pond use only 'practice' as both noun and verb!

Well..... at least they have a 50% chance of getting it right.

 

[MikeNewYork]

Well..... at least they have a 50% chance of getting it right.

As do you!

 

[Barb_D]

Okay - well... I think this thread has served its purpose.

If you want to have a playful exchange about British/American usage, lets move it to "General Language Discussions" - okay?

 

[Chicken Sandwich]

I can appreciate your point of view but I don't agree. In the UK, spelling and grammar are rarely "taught", so you can't really link it to education. Most people learn to speak by repetition so they say what they hear most frequently. They learn to write partly through their parents and through school but a lot of spelling and grammar is simply picked up by reading. However, we rarely see "could've/should've" written down so when people hear it, they think it sounds like "could of" or "should of" (or they think that the word which sounds like "couldve" must be written "could of". As Barb said, people write what they hear.

The fact that even university graduates sometimes write "could of" and "should of" and some such things, indicates that spelling and grammar should be taught in British schools. Now that I think about it, "could of" and "should of" seem to be a British phenomenon--I've never seen a speaker of AmE write this. If this true, I wonder what a reasonable explanation for this could be.

However, we rarely see "could've/should've" written down so when people hear it, they think it sounds like "could of" or "should of" (or they think that the word which sounds like "couldve" must be written "could of".

Surely if you are reading a novel or whatever, you come across "could've/should've" a bunch of times? Or do British pupils rarely read (nowadays)?

 

[Grumpy]

Okay - well... I think this thread has served its purpose.

If you want to have a playful exchange about British/American usage, lets move it to "General Language Discussions" - okay?

Yes, Ma'am......sorry. (Sniffs) He started it, anyway...... (Sniffs; shuffles feet) Sorry....

 

[Barb_D]

Yes, Ma'am......sorry. (Sniffs) He started it, anyway...... (Sniffs; shuffles feet) Sorry....

Y'all are going to drive me to:drinking: