You lazy bones/You're a lazy bones

[Winwin2011]

I heard many native speakers said the following phrases leaving out ‘the verb to be’ and ‘articles’.

1. You lazy bones (You're a lazy bones)
2. You idiot (You're an idiot)

I don’t know how to explain to my child. Could anybody explain to me, please?

Is it common for native speakers to say ‘e.g you jerk instead of you are a jerk?

Thanks.

 

[Chicken Sandwich]

NOT A TEACHER

I have heard native speakers say things such as, 'You idiot', so, yes, I guess it's pretty common in spoken English. There is an implied verb, 'You (are an) idiot'.

You cannot, however, say, 'He/she idiot' (although I can't say why). You also cannot say, 'You smart'. 'You genius' does work on the other hand.

 

[Winwin2011]

NOT A TEACHER

I have heard native speakers say things such as, 'You idiot', so, yes, I guess it's pretty common in spoken English. There is an implied verb, 'You (are an) idiot'.

You cannot, however, say, 'He/she idiot' (although I can't say why). You also cannot say, 'You smart'. 'You genius' does work on the other hand.

Thanks, Chicken Sandwich.

What does "implied verb" mean? I wonder if it is common to say 'you stupid' (When parents talks to their children)?

Thanks again!

 

[5jj]

I wonder if it is common to say 'you stupid' (When parents talks to their children)?

No. Parents who wish to speak to their children in such terms might say, "You stupid boy/girl", but not just "You stupid".

 

[BobK]

Thanks, Chicken Sandwich.

What does "implied verb" mean? I wonder if it is common to say 'you stupid' (When parents talks to their children)?

Thanks again!

No. The implication is in the context. If I look at you and say 'Dimwiit' the implication is 'You are a ...'. So to say you think someone's stupid, you just look at them and say 'Stupid. However, if a colleague and I are both complaing about a new HR proposal, I can say to him/her 'Stupid' and mean '[IT is] stupid.

Finally, there is a possible explanation for the utterance 'You stupid [...]' - it could be 'You stupid idiot' or 'You stupid fool' or 'You stupid <any-noun>. Sometimes people start out to say 'You stupid...' and then can't think of a suitable noun. Often, they justify the [...] by saying something like 'You stupid... I can't think of a word that fits.'

b

 

[BobK]

Thanks, Chicken Sandwich.

What does "implied verb" mean? I wonder if it is common to say 'you stupid' (When parents talks to their children)?

Thanks again!

No. The implication is in the context. If I look at you and say 'Dimwiit' the implication is 'You are a ...'. So to say you think someone's stupid, you just look at them and say 'Stupid'. However, if a colleague and I are both complaining about a new HR proposal, I can say to him/her 'Stupid' and mean '[IT is] stupid.

Finally, there is a possible explanation for the utterance 'You stupid [...]' - it could be 'You stupid idiot' or 'You stupid fool' or 'You stupid <any-noun>. Sometimes people start out to say 'You stupid...' and then can't think of a suitable noun. Often, they justify the [...] by saying something like 'You stupid... I can't think of a word that fits.'

b

 

[Barb_D]

I just want to say that the question itself makes me sad. :-( I would never, EVER say "You are stupid" to my children, or "You idiot!" as a way to address them.

More to the point:
The reason you can say "You genius!" but not "You smart" is that genius, lazy bones, smart ass, idiot, etc. are all nouns. I have seen many English learns say "He is a stupid" but that is wrong - "stupid" is only an adjective, not a noun.

There are hundreds of things you you can say after "you" in this manner: You miracle worker, you! You prince! You clever boy! You naughty kitten! (Yes, I talk to my cats.)

 

[Rover_KE]

(Yes, I talk to my cats.)

They expect it and understand every word you say.

Rover
lympic:

 

[5jj]

I talk to my cats.

I talk to my wife's cat. When my wife is not at home I do tend to say, "You ******"

Incidentally, this is a cat that is not the brightest of feline beasts. It has a surname, "Branez", and a forename "Sheetfer". At least, that's the way I have to spell and pronounce its name in a family forum.

 

[Winwin2011]

Hi teachers,

I heard some native speakers said something like "You hungry" in the moive, but I am not sure whether they were just saying "You're hungry".

Thanks.

 

[5jj]

They might have asked "You hungry?". In informal conversation, the initial verb 'are' is sometimes dropped.

 

[Barb_D]

Off topic:
My conversation might go like this:
Are you supposed to be on the table? No, you're not, pretty girl. So get down off the table (pet pet pet, thus rewarding her behavior) Yes, of course you're a pretty girl. But you don't belong on the table, you naughty kitty (pet pet pet). Okay, down now.

Resume topic

 

[TheParser]

NOT A TEACHER


Hello, Winwin:

As you can see from the many replies, you have asked a great question. And the posters have told you how such expressions are used in everyday English. I am more interested in the internal syntax. That is, the grammatical explanation for the phrase "you idiot."

I did some googling, and I think that the following is accurate:

1. In "You idiot, sit down and be quiet!" the phrase "You idiot" is not an ellipsis of "You are an idiot."

2. You already know that in "Tom, come here," "Tom" is called a vocative. That is, you are addressing him directly.

3. "You idiot" is a different kind of vocative. It is called an evaluative vocative. That is, you make an evaluation

(judgment) of someone. In the case of "idiot," you have made a negative judgment. Of course, you could also make

a positive evaluation: "You darling, come here and sit down next to me!"

4. According to one expert *** in the phrase "You idiot," the subject is "idiot." (Not "you.")

5. The really difficult part is to understand the use of "you." The experts have different views. It is too difficult for

me to understand their theories. One scholar says that the "you" is from the prepositional phrase "to you." I cannot

understand what he is saying.

6. *** If you wish to read a scholarly article that explains the internal syntax of phrases such as "You idiot," please google:

Uniformity and Diversity in the Syntax of Evaluative Vocatives Norbert Corver

*****

It is a brilliant article. It explores the different ways to analyze the use of "you." As I said, it is too difficult for me to

understand. By the way -- if I understood what I read -- some other experts may possibly consider "you" in "You idiot" to be

something like a determiner. Compare: the idiot/ that idiot/ you idiot.

Thanks again for your intriguing question. I am going to keep thinking about it and googling.


HAVE A NICE DAY!

 

[TheParser]

NOT A TEACHER


I have found four famous experts who seem (repeat: seem) to agree with your analysis of the evaluative vocative

"You idiot."

A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Grammar is a very big book written by four world-famous experts. It is widely

quoted by teachers throughout the world. On page 850 of my 1985 edition, here is what Professors Quirk, Greenbaum,

Leech, and Svartvik write (I have copied it exactly, including the brackets):

If the phrase is directed at the person addressed, it may be prefaced by you; eg: You angel! ['You are an

angel!'], You poor thing!, You idiot!

*****

On page 842, they give this example:

You fool, to forget your wedding anniversary!

*****

In my first post, I quoted the opinions of some experts; in this post, I have quoted the opinions of other experts. Of

course, it really does not matter who is "correct." As the other posters told you, native speakers would usually NOT

say, "You are an idiot. Why did you forget your wife's birthday?" They would simply say, "You idiot, how could you

have forgotten your wife's birthday!" or (like the sentence on page 842) "You fool/ idiot, to forget your wife's

birthday!"


HAVE A NICE DAY! (Thanks again for the great question!)

 

[5jj]

As the other posters told you, native speakers would usually NOT say, "You are an idiot. Why did you forget your wife's birthday?" They would simply say, "You idiot, how could you have forgotten your wife's birthday!" or (like the sentence on page 842) "You fool/ idiot, to forget your wife's birthday!"

It's not been made clear whether 'you idiot' is used vocatively, or whether there is an implied verb there. I don't think anyone has suggested that native speakers would usually longer form in situations such as you mention. There are situations in which I think that the shorter, 'vocative', form is the only one likely to be used: "Don't put vinegar on your ice cream, (you) idiot". Compare this with, "Why are you putting vinegar on your ice cream, (you) idiot?" / "Why are you putting vinegar on your ice cream? You're an idiot", in which both are possible and, in my opinion, slightly different.

 

[charliedeut]

However, as long as you stick to your own ice-cream and don't even look at mine... :icecream::shock:

 

[charliedeut]

"Don't put vinegar on your ice cream, (you) idiot". Compare this with, "Why are you putting vinegar on your ice cream, (you) idiot?" / "Why are you putting vinegar on your ice cream? You're an idiot"

Asolutely/completely/totally off-topic:

Maybe it would fit some of these

 

[Winwin2011]

NOT A TEACHER

A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Grammar is a very big book written by four world-famous experts. It is widely

quoted by teachers throughout the world. On page 850 of my 1985 edition, here is what Professors Quirk, Greenbaum,

Leech, and Svartvik write (I have copied it exactly, including the brackets):

If the phrase is directed at the person addressed, it may be prefaced by you; eg: You angel! ['You are an

angel!'], You poor thing!, You idiot!

*****

Hi TheParser,

Thank you very much for your kind replies. You are so great that you could find the relevant grammatical explanation from your grammar book. What is the topic of the following sentences?

If the phrase is directed at the person addressed, it may be prefaced by you; eg: You angel! ['You are an

angel!'], You poor thing!, You idiot!

Thanks again.

Have a good day!

 

[TheParser]

What is the topic of the following sentences?

If the phrase is directed at the person addressed, it may be prefaced by you; eg: You angel! ['You are an

angel!'], You poor thing!, You idiot!

Thanks again.

Have a good day!

NOT A TEACHER


Thank you, winwin, for your kind note.

I am not sure that I understand your question. Are you referring to the professors' book? Well, this information comes

from a section that they title "Nonsentences."

Here are some examples of what they mean by "nonsentences":

a. The clothes she wears!
b. You and your statistics!
c. Big Baby!
d. You idiot!
e. My hat, please!

and many more examples.




HAVE A NICE DAY!

 

[tzfujimino]

NOT A TEACHER


Thank you, winwin, for your kind note.

I am not sure that I understand your question. Are you referring to the professors' book? Well, this information comes

from a section that they title "Nonsentences."

Here are some examples of what they mean by "nonsentences":

a. The clothes she wears!
b. You and your statistics!
c. Big Baby!
d. You idiot!
e. My hat, please!

and many more examples.

Well, I had better stop before I am accused of not staying on the issue of "language."


HAVE A NICE DAY!

Hello, TheParser.
There's nothing wrong with your post.
You ARE staying on the issue.:-D
I hope I will be able to learn a lot more from you.