Question about English vowel diagram

I draw this diagram from a phonetic book/British pronuciation/




http://www14.0zz0.com/2011/05/11/11/373078080.jpg







But the symbols which were underlined by yellow color ,I do not think that they are phonetic symbols because we have only
/æ / as in cat
/ʌ / as in cut
/ɜ:/ as in turn

And we have not ɑ and ɜ
Also the/ ɜ/ / ɔ/ should be with colon
So I am very confused:-(

Do not you see the picture?

/ɛ/ is the vowel of bed.
/ɑ/ is the first vowel of father.

The ː, that looks like a colon, means that the vowel is long. In British English there's usually /ɜː/ and /ɔː/, but it's not necessary to add ː because what matters is the vowel itself, since the length can vary by person.

symaa said:

I draw this diagram from a phonetic book/British pronuciation/

http://www14.0zz0.com/2011/05/11/11/373078080.jpg







But the symbols which were underlined by yellow color ,I do not think that they are phonetic symbols because we have only
/æ / as in cat
/ʌ / as in cut
/ɜ:/ as in turn

And we have not ɑ and ɜ
Also the/ ɜ/ / ɔ/ should be with colon
So I am very confused:-(

Click to expand...

thatone said:

/ɛ/ is the vowel of bed.
/ɑ/ is the first vowel of father.

The ː, that looks like a colon, means that the vowel is long. In British English there's usually /ɜː/ and /ɔː/, but it's not necessary to add ː because what matters is the vowel itself, since the length can vary by person.

Click to expand...

:up: ;-) Don't be worried by this, symaa. The IPA system specifies and represents many more sounds than are needed for a language student's needs. There is a convention by which - for ease of typing, the symbol [ɛ] is represented by /e/, because English has no [e] vs [ɛ] distinction, so for phonemic transcription the more familiar symbol is often used; the same goes for [ɑ] vs [a].

b

thatone said:

/ɛ/ is the vowel of bed.
/ɑ/ is the first vowel of father.

The ː, that looks like a colon, means that the vowel is long. In British English there's usually /ɜː/ and /ɔː/, but it's not necessary to add ː because what matters is the vowel itself, since the length can vary by person.

Click to expand...

thank you for your explanation
But the transcribtion of bed is /bed/
and father /fɑːðə/
Regards

BobK said:

:up: ;-) Don't be worried by this, symaa. The IPA system specifies and represents many more sounds than are needed for a language student's needs. There is a convention by which - for ease of typing, the symbol [ɛ] is represented by /e/, because English has no [e] vs [ɛ] distinction, so for phonemic transcription the more familiar symbol is often used; the same goes for [ɑ] vs [a].

b

Click to expand...

Thank you teacher,
My teacher said the sound ɑ like bat, but the transcription of bat is /bæt/.Really this diagram disturb me.
By the way I like British accent,it is very pretty.
All the best

In IPA, the correct vowel of bed is /ɛ/. Your book might use /e/ to make things easier.

/ɑ/ and /ɑː/ are the same vowel. The ː just means that the vowel is longer. Such a symbol is omitted in IPA charts.

thatone said:

In IPA, the correct vowel of bed is /ɛ/. Your book might use /e/ to make things easier.

/ɑ/ and /ɑː/ are the same vowel. The ː just means that the vowel is longer. Such a symbol is omitted in IPA charts.

Click to expand...

The transcription is from oxfordadvancedlearnersdictionary.com
Thank you very much for your help
Best wishes

symaa said:

Thank you teacher,
My teacher said the sound ɑ like bat, but the transcription of bat is /bæt/.Really this diagram disturb me.
By the way I like British accent,it is very pretty.
All the best

Click to expand...

If you teacher "said the sound ɑ like bat, but the transcription of bat", then it is your teacher who should be disturbing you, not the diagram.
Do you have any other troubles with it?

Raymott said:

If you teacher "said the sound like bat, but the transcription of bat", then it is your teacher who should be disturbing you, not the diagram.
Do you have any other troubles with it?

Click to expand...

Thank you, but to be honest I am very confused if

To be perfectly honest my teacher said that ɑ as in bat ,but when I looked for the transcription of the word I found that the transcription of bat is /bæt/
So, I cannot distinguish between the two vowels:-(, so how can they have the same pronunciation ,because æ is font vowel and in the other side ɑ is a back vowel,moreover I never find a word transcribed with ɑ

All the best
Thank you again my teacher

symaa said:

Thank you teacher,
My teacher said the sound ɑ like bat, but the transcription of bat is /bæt/.Really this diagram disturb me.
By the way I like British accent,it is very pretty.
All the best

Click to expand...

Your teacher is in error, if he really said that.

konungursvia said:

Your teacher is in error, if he really said that.

Click to expand...

Thank you teacher for your interest

He just pronounce the word and I think there is in English only bat and but.

So could you please explain me the difference between
æ and ɑ
if there are some examples which could simplify to me this diagram:-( I would be very happy
I am extremly disturbed with this vowel diagram



NB: we study British pronunciation

symaa said:

Thank you teacher for your interest

He just pronounce the word and I think there is in English only bat and but.

So could you please explain me the difference between
æ and ɑ
if there are some examples which could simplify to me this diagram:-( I would be very happy
I am extremly disturbed with this vowel diagram



NB: we study British pronunciation

Click to expand...

My opinion is that you don't need ɑ for transcribing general British English. He's either saying 'bat' /bæt/ or 'but' /bʌt/.
ɑ is on the other side of ʌ from æ.
Since ɑ isn't necessary (it's not even in the Australian Macquarie Dictionary IPA pronunication guide - we use ʌ ), it's difficult to give examples with ɑ.
You can use it for Italian 'pasta' /pɑstɑ/
I've never used it to transcribe English.

Raymott said:

My opinion is that you don't need ɑ for transcribing general British English. He's either saying 'bat' /bæt/ or 'but' /bʌt/.
ɑ is on the other side of ʌ from æ.
Since ɑ isn't necessary (it's not even in the Australian Macquarie Dictionary IPA pronunication guide - we use ʌ ), it's difficult to give examples with ɑ.
You can use it for Italian 'pasta' /pɑstɑ/
I've never used it to transcribe English.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your reply
So if it is not necesssary why they include it in the english vowel diagram, perhaps it means ɑ: as in arm, anyway thank you for your help teacher,and excuse me if I bother you.
Regards

Perhaps the teacher was talking about Thai currency - or Homer's son. Doh;-)

b

BobK said:

Perhaps the teacher was talking about Thai currency - or Homer's son. Doh;-)

b

Click to expand...

what's?
Linguistic is very complicated:-(
All the best my teacher

Sorry . It was a joke. The Thai unit of currency is Thai baht - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and Homer's son is Bart Simpson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

b

BobK said:

Sorry . It was a joke. The Thai unit of currency is Thai baht - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, and Homer's son is Bart Simpson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

b

Click to expand...

:-D Before I posted I have looked for the meaning in the internet, but I do not understand, you seems that you have a merry personality.
I am a clever student hahaa
Best wishes

symaa said:

:-D Before I posted I have looked for the meaning in the internet, but I do not understand, you seems that you have a merry personality.
I am a clever student hahaa
Best wishes

Click to expand...

In any case, that would be /ba:t/ or /bart/ if you're rhotic (for the second), not /bɑ:t/ or /bɑrt/.

You'll also note that the official IPA vowel chart places ɑ and ʌ in difference places. And your teachers chart seems to be missing the /a/, which is traditional below the æ. He's apparently using /ɑ/ for /a/, which is fine as long as everyone knows what's going on (and realises that it's not traditional IPA). He still can't transcibe 'cat' as /kɑt/ though, if that's the case.

Here's a proper IPA chart:
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/5/5a/20060825195333!IPA_vowel_chart_2005.png&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IPA_vowel_chart_2005.png&h=641&w=797&sz=32&tbnid=6XljW6PUjVOlpM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=143&prev=/search%3Fq%3DIPA%2Bvowel%2Bchart%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=IPA+vowel+chart&hl=en&usg=___Q6RifamIMV7pS7nb-HocbqQDjo=&sa=X&ei=FOTSTa_PDYPOrQeTzKWrCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CD4Q9QEwBg

Raymott said:

My opinion is that you don't need ɑ for transcribing general British English.

Click to expand...

I don't think this is right. [ɑ:] is present in RP in words like "father", "far", "path", "laugh". The sound is apparently not present in AusE, this chart says.